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this program is brought to you by the

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genesis communications network a world

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leader in talk radio since 1998.

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[Music]

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you're in the paracast

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the gold standard of paranormal radio

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and now

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here's gene steinberg

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so chris o'brien is on special

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assignment

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more important

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the employer he works for where he does

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those grand canyon tours said you've got

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to work today

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and he said yes sir because it means

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you know good money for him so

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he is not on this episode so we called

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in our old friend micah hanks to be our

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guest co-host micah how have you been

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i have been wonderful and it's uh it's

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always a pleasure i remember coming on

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your show years ago as a guest but to

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think that i get to fill the very

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formidable shoes of mr o'brien from time

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to time and just catch up with you it's

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wonderful now i don't know that the

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listeners will appreciate that as much

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as you and i do but

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it's good to be here nonetheless

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well you know we're glad to have you in

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either case

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you know just because we needed somebody

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to fill the time but we had to have

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somebody who does it has the chops

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to get in here without a lot of

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preparation or advanced warning and come

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up to speed speaking of coming up to

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speed don't know if you've listened to

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the recent episodes but we get in

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trouble on the power cast chris and i

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when we mention politics oh you too huh

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oh it happens to you

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oh yes

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all right tell us some war stories here

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and i'll give you a few of ours

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well you know i do a a decidedly

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unapologetically uh centrist podcast

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every week called middle theory and the

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reason i do that is because on my

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primary podcast the grayling report

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which i've been doing gosh for five or

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six maybe seven years now

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if i ever would bring up politics we did

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a whole episode for instance back when

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the benghazi scandal came out

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and i thought that this would be an

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interesting way to infuse a little news

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and current events and maybe some

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discussion of conspiracy into a show

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that already

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in the introduction says where

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conspiracy theory becomes conspiracy

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fact but the listenership is quick to do

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one of two things we love them and want

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to hear more of it or the other 50 who

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say we never want to hear politics again

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are listening to a show that deals with

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supernatural and unexplained and strange

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topics this is something that is

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repassed for us a break

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from the 24-hour news cycles and the

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spin cycles

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that are going on out there so we don't

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want to hear that and so i i can

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sympathize with you guys when you say

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that you know you're castigated for

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discussing those things but you know you

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win some you lose some you're going to

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be castigated no matter what and so i

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figured i'll at least move those

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subjects to a different format

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altogether and that's why i do middle

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theory but even on middle theory trying

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to be

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centrist and approaching the news

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without putting a heavy bias on it i

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still will get it from both sides people

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will say well mikey you've got a leftist

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agenda i get that an awful lot that's

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part of the problem here especially on

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the more conservative shows anyone who

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is

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somewhat to the left even at their

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centrist or right of center

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becomes a flaming liberal all democrats

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have to be flaming liberals they can't

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just be

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people who have moderate views on

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different subjects and some are more

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left some are more right i mean that's

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what's so ridiculous about how that

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works but the more important thing is

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when it comes to the paranormal world

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i don't think you can separate politics

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because look at all the people who are

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asking for ufo disclosure who's going to

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disclose ufos

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governments

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who runs the government of course the

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politicians

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so suddenly you are in the political

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realm or for example when

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secretary clinton running for president

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promises to look into the ufo matter or

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her chairman of her campaign committee

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john podesta who's been doing it for 20

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years he's been interested in ufos and

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made no bones about it when they start

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talking ufos

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these are politicians

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talking ufos if you ever read a book by

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major donald kehoe the pioneer in the

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ufo field it was very very much about

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politics about the silence group about

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the forces within the government who

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might be keeping the ufo secret how do

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you leave politics out of it anyway well

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i don't really think that you can coming

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back to what you said earlier about you

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express a particular position on an

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issue and suddenly this is something

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that is touted as being either a liberal

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or a conservative issue and you're

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suddenly branded as being of that

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particular ideology and usually to the

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extreme whereas really i know in my case

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this is true i may just hold a

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particular view about a social issue or

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an economic issue that happens to fall

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into the general ideology of liberal or

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conservative in america today but the

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polarization is where the problem is now

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coming to kehoe and the history of

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politics involved with the ufo subject

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absolutely the two are inseparable and

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that's the modern exopolitical movement

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or the disclosure movement that we see

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again you know i am very careful gene

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about giving myself to the idea that

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aliens from space are what we're dealing

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with here i think that there are a lot

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of varieties of potentials but kehoe

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keep in mind he wrote that book i have

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that on my shelf over here

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aliens from space he was very much of

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the mind that this phenomena could not

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be explained in any other way

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we had to be dealing with something that

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was in likelihood extraterrestrial

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and yes that there was or it needed to

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be a political movement behind

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acquisition of that data from whoever

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may be

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withholding from the public the real

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information about what we're dealing

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with so reading his stuff years after

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the fact is not only very interesting

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but it does put in perspective the

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necessary understanding of how politics

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fits into the ufo subject and vice versa

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which again like you're discussing with

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clinton and podesta yeah we see it very

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much in the 2016 election i'm just

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surprised here that trump isn't tweeting

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back and forth he's talking about

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crooked hillary lock her up how about

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spaced out hillary because she wants to

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look into ufos

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i'm surprised he hasn't latched on to

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that but it is interesting that people

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don't seem to attack her very much over

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what again the scientific establishment

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would consider an extremely silly

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position to hold it there's nothing to

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see here therefore why would you

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investigate and try to call for

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disclosure of government uh ufo files

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she said during her uh dnc speech her

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acceptance speech the other night quote

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i believe in science and then she kind

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of giggled and of course people in the

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scientific establishment gave her some

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trouble over that because they said well

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science isn't about belief hillary look

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come on i understand what she was trying

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to say because we have a political party

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that makes up science they don't accept

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science i mean it's one thing to

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disagree with scientific findings

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especially if you know what you're

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talking about yeah but not to take

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accepted science

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and just make up things really in

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fairness would say i see a little of it

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on both sides of the political spectrum

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i think that coming to ufos that that

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can be something that can be discussed

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both politically

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and scientifically and so that's what's

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interesting about clinton's advocacy of

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ufo disclosure is that she is being

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touted right now as the science

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candidate and yet the scientific

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establishment seems to be saying very

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little about or expressing very little

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concern about her interest in ufos so

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maybe the question here is does she

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bring do people like she and podesta

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bring an air of credibility to the

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scientific discussion and the political

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discussion of the ufo subject now take

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it

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endorsement i'm just saying she very

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well may be able to do that but and i do

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find that interesting again this is

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something that you don't hear an awful

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lot about and i think you're right to

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point that out so why is she not

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attacked by trump or whoever else for

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holding that position that's interesting

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it may be that trump is focusing

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a narrow area of attack and this is kind

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of out of his

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radar he doesn't see this because it's

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not something he concentrates into he'll

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talk about crooked hillary about the

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email he'll talk about her being the

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person who started isis that's one of

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the recent charges he's made

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but ufos is something so far beyond his

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attention

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he hasn't ever focused on it has nothing

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to do with his experience

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and so therefore

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it is to him

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alien

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yes i suppose so bernie sanders earlier

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in the primaries had been asked about

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his interest in ufos and he essentially

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put that subject down and said i don't

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have any interest in that that's not

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going to be a fundamental tenet of my

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campaign and when we go back to 2008

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barack obama had expressed a similar

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sentiment during one of the debates that

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was televised he was asked essentially

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what do you think about alien life he

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says look i don't know if there's life

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out there but i do know life exists here

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on earth and as president i'm going to

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address that first so in terms of the

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hierarchy of concerns i realize

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politicians left or right are not going

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to be typically of a mind to say that

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ufos are the fundamental tenet of my

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campaign but gene who is that guys and

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uh um visagio yeah uh yeah of andrew

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basajio i think

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he's talking about having been one of

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these time travelers he wants ufo

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disclosure and all this you know who i'm

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talking about i do we had thought from

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time to time to bring him on the show

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but it would be something that would end

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up being a bloodbath and i'll give you

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an example of that we'll take it into

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the next segment when we bring

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our listeners on

279
00:09:45,110 --> 00:09:43,680
and that is

280
00:09:47,030 --> 00:09:45,120
we had

281
00:09:49,350 --> 00:09:47,040
grant cameron on

282
00:09:50,630 --> 00:09:49,360
and i got into it with him for a number

283
00:09:52,790 --> 00:09:50,640
of reasons we're going to have a

284
00:09:55,269 --> 00:09:52,800
listener round table michael hanks is

285
00:09:57,269 --> 00:09:55,279
our guest co-host we'll have sue and

286
00:09:58,870 --> 00:09:57,279
we'll have ufology

287
00:09:59,829 --> 00:09:58,880
and they'll be joining us in just a

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moment

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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

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send it to news

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paracast.com and don't forget to visit

386
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our famous paracast community forums at

387
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okay we finally made it i have to tell

388
00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:34,720
you that skype was doing one of its

389
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:37,199
things and maybe because microsoft has

390
00:14:41,590 --> 00:14:39,519
taken skype and instead of having it

391
00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:41,600
peer-to-peer where each

392
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:44,320
computer originating a skype contact

393
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:46,480
would be part of the network kind of

394
00:14:50,790 --> 00:14:48,399
like in the old days when you

395
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:50,800
had an app store and you downloaded the

396
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songs and everything instead they moved

397
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everything up in the cloud

398
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to this

399
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amorphous network and now things are

400
00:15:01,829 --> 00:14:59,519
crazy but we have micah hanks as our

401
00:15:04,150 --> 00:15:01,839
guest co-host chris is on special

402
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:04,160
assignment we have two listeners joining

403
00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:05,360
us sue

404
00:15:11,509 --> 00:15:06,320
and

405
00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:11,519
got you on

406
00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:13,760
sure it's great to be back gene great to

407
00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:16,079
have you we were talking about a subject

408
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:17,600
and i'd like to get your input both of

409
00:15:22,389 --> 00:15:20,880
you here and that is sue and randall

410
00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:22,399
the big issue

411
00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:24,160
that really we get in trouble with on

412
00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:26,880
the power cast is whenever we talk

413
00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:29,440
about politics even if it's politics as

414
00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:31,839
related to the paranormal

415
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:33,600
because as soon as you talk about ufo

416
00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:35,040
disclosure you're dealing with

417
00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:36,399
politicians

418
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:38,240
as soon as you find a politician who

419
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:40,720
promises to get to the bottom of it like

420
00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:42,560
a certain former secretary of state

421
00:15:47,670 --> 00:15:45,360
clinton you have politics as soon as you

422
00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:47,680
read a book from major donald kehoe

423
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:49,680
and even the book by the late captain

424
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:50,880
rupelt

425
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:53,199
politics gets into it

426
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:56,399
so what do i do randall well that's okay

427
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:59,120
sue you started off that's fine

428
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:00,320
i think

429
00:16:04,949 --> 00:16:02,480
there's a perfectly valid entrance for

430
00:16:07,430 --> 00:16:04,959
talking about politics with regard to

431
00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:07,440
ufos when it comes to disclosure because

432
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:11,040
you've kind of got two competing lenses

433
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:13,120
aimed at the same topic

434
00:16:17,430 --> 00:16:15,920
there's a whole ufo angle on the matter

435
00:16:20,069 --> 00:16:17,440
and then you have to take into account

436
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:20,079
the way the world of real politics

437
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:23,120
works and and kind of triangulate the

438
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:25,040
two and see how well they fit over one

439
00:16:28,870 --> 00:16:27,360
another that's my first impression that

440
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:28,880
kind of discussion i think is really

441
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:31,839
interesting and fruitful uh randall your

442
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:33,519
thoughts

443
00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:34,800
actually i

444
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,880
agree with you completely i i think it's

445
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:38,560
part of the way that politics is

446
00:16:42,389 --> 00:16:40,000
structured you can

447
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:42,399
follow all of the candidates around and

448
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:44,720
and you know that wherever they go

449
00:16:48,150 --> 00:16:46,000
they've got people who are looking at

450
00:16:49,829 --> 00:16:48,160
the demographics and what people think

451
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:49,839
and so when they're in a place where

452
00:16:54,629 --> 00:16:52,320
people want to hear a certain thing they

453
00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:54,639
say what those people want to hear

454
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:56,240
and of course that's why you get all of

455
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:58,399
the contradictions because in one place

456
00:17:01,590 --> 00:16:59,920
some people are going to think something

457
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:01,600
different and in another place they'll

458
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:03,680
think something different again

459
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:06,480
so when they're around where people

460
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:08,400
want to know about ufos they're going to

461
00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:10,079
tell them what they want to hear and

462
00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:12,079
then when they get into office like

463
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:14,000
everything else they just do what they

464
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:15,199
want to do

465
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:16,400
or they do

466
00:17:20,069 --> 00:17:18,319
what the person who contributed 100

467
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:20,079
million dollars to their campaign wants

468
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:21,120
them to do

469
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:23,520
and there's no ufo lobby of that size if

470
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:25,760
stephen bassett could raise

471
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:28,000
100 million dollars for a political

472
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:30,000
action committee to

473
00:17:35,510 --> 00:17:33,360
put money into the particular candidate

474
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:35,520
that he prefers

475
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:37,440
then i assure you the ufo lobby would

476
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:38,640
get attention

477
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:40,799
well that kind of raises a question for

478
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:42,960
me with all the increase in the private

479
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:45,600
space program stuff going on

480
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:47,280
is that going to mean that there are

481
00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:50,240
going to be more reports of sightings

482
00:17:53,909 --> 00:17:52,799
coming from those avenues or would they

483
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:53,919
not reach

484
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:55,440
the public because they're from

485
00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:58,080
privately funded ventures you know what

486
00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:00,400
i mean they have no obligation to tell

487
00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:02,400
anybody anything they're private but

488
00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:04,720
they might want to talk about it anyway

489
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:07,200
we've already had that happening with

490
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:09,120
several companies

491
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:11,039
but no ufos yet

492
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:12,480
you know one thing i'm reminded of guys

493
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:14,559
is uh robert bigelow and of course

494
00:18:18,150 --> 00:18:16,640
bigelow aerospace he is one of these

495
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:18,160
private companies and before that he of

496
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,520
course had the national institute for

497
00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:21,360
discovery science and they

498
00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:23,440
sometimes did uh reveal

499
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:25,280
some of their findings in public uh

500
00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:27,120
reports but then again there's also the

501
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:30,559
other side of that coin in which bigelow

502
00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:32,240
certainly kept some of his findings and

503
00:18:35,830 --> 00:18:34,240
research away from public eyes and

504
00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:35,840
furthermore had hoped to try and work

505
00:18:38,789 --> 00:18:37,280
with mufon

506
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:38,799
in order to be able to gain access to

507
00:18:43,750 --> 00:18:40,400
their information and again a civil

508
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:43,760
civilian group as mufon is they also

509
00:18:48,070 --> 00:18:46,160
for a variety of reasons but namely of

510
00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:48,080
course because they are a membership

511
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:50,559
organization they also and i think

512
00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:52,000
perhaps with good reason keep some of

513
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:54,480
their files private just as well in

514
00:18:58,390 --> 00:18:56,400
other words how else would they appeal

515
00:19:00,070 --> 00:18:58,400
to new membership if they didn't so

516
00:19:02,150 --> 00:19:00,080
there are a variety of reasons why

517
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:02,160
private entity would maybe keep certain

518
00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:04,320
things off record so to speak just as

519
00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:05,039
well

520
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:07,360
i guess the question is is is there

521
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:10,160
therefore a cause for some sort of a

522
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:12,000
non-profit organization that would be

523
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:14,640
completely 100 transparent about its

524
00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:15,919
findings that would be able to try and

525
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:17,840
glean interest and and funding and

526
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:20,160
scientific research into ufos that would

527
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:22,720
truly fairly present and uh and be

528
00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:24,480
entirely forthcoming with information

529
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:26,480
found in terms of the way it

530
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:27,840
communicates with the public could that

531
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:29,280
kind of a thing really realistically

532
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:30,320
happen

533
00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:32,480
i think so i know that's what i've been

534
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:34,400
trying to do with the group that i've

535
00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:37,120
got here and i don't charge anything to

536
00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:39,440
be part of our website or

537
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:42,240
membership in in the group or anything

538
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:44,160
like that but the trick is getting

539
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:46,559
people actually involved who want to

540
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:48,559
spend the time everyone has a lot of

541
00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:49,840
good ideas

542
00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:52,000
but getting them off the couch is pretty

543
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:53,919
tough sometimes randall can you recap

544
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:55,919
what your group is and what you do oh

545
00:19:59,909 --> 00:19:58,240
it's the ufology society international

546
00:20:02,390 --> 00:19:59,919
i've had it for

547
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:02,400
oh nearly 30 years now

548
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:05,520
and we've got a few thousand members in

549
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:08,080
about 20 25 countries

550
00:20:12,789 --> 00:20:10,320
around the world and everyone loves to

551
00:20:15,029 --> 00:20:12,799
support the idea in principle but

552
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:15,039
getting someone who is willing to take

553
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:17,840
even just time to put into write

554
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:20,640
articles to do some research to

555
00:20:25,590 --> 00:20:23,120
to do more than just support the cause

556
00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:25,600
and principle that's really tough

557
00:20:30,310 --> 00:20:28,480
yeah certainly is thank you by the way

558
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:30,320
but we look at this here

559
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:33,200
i don't foresee ever

560
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:35,840
ufo disclosure i think if there is a

561
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:38,159
revelation about ufos it would be

562
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:40,400
externally driven but the other thing to

563
00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:42,240
bear in mind here is

564
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:44,559
if you put all or a lot of the key

565
00:20:49,029 --> 00:20:46,799
elements of ufo research from the

566
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:49,039
government into the private sector

567
00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:50,400
immediately they don't have the

568
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:52,880
obligation to tell you bob bigelow does

569
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:55,440
not have the obligation to tell you elon

570
00:20:58,390 --> 00:20:56,320
musk

571
00:21:00,149 --> 00:20:58,400
doesn't have to tell you a thing even

572
00:21:02,230 --> 00:21:00,159
though spacex is

573
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:02,240
taking off and landing and he plans to

574
00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:03,120
send

575
00:21:07,990 --> 00:21:05,200
men to mars

576
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:08,000
10 15 years ahead of nasa he's got all

577
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:09,840
this stuff going on

578
00:21:14,549 --> 00:21:12,720
but if there were ufo sightings

579
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:14,559
he's not public official he can do what

580
00:21:19,270 --> 00:21:16,400
he wants as long as it's not against the

581
00:21:22,149 --> 00:21:19,280
law and even then you wonder

582
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:22,159
well yeah i remember when um

583
00:21:25,590 --> 00:21:24,000
we were talking about bigelow one time

584
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:25,600
so i went to his website and he was

585
00:21:29,669 --> 00:21:28,080
actually recruiting people to work for

586
00:21:33,110 --> 00:21:29,679
him on

587
00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:33,120
discovering how ufos work and he was

588
00:21:36,870 --> 00:21:34,720
really focusing on their propulsion

589
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:36,880
systems and you can imagine

590
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:38,720
what a benefit that could be to a

591
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:40,240
private corporation if they were able to

592
00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:42,559
figure that out and i remember him

593
00:21:48,630 --> 00:21:46,240
advertising for outside the box thinkers

594
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:48,640
and when i went to look at what he

595
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:51,520
wanted in terms of credentials they were

596
00:21:54,789 --> 00:21:53,760
all inside the box credentials people

597
00:21:58,230 --> 00:21:54,799
with

598
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:58,240
degrees in physics or math or whatever

599
00:22:02,310 --> 00:22:00,240
it happened to be so you have

600
00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:02,320
this person who wants to think outside

601
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:04,400
the box but is only hiring people who

602
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:06,960
think inside the box to get it done

603
00:22:11,190 --> 00:22:09,039
and i thought that was a little ironic

604
00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:11,200
yeah that's an interesting point yeah

605
00:22:14,789 --> 00:22:12,799
yeah sue go ahead i'm sorry i think i

606
00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:14,799
may have cut you off by the way oh i was

607
00:22:17,590 --> 00:22:16,000
just i

608
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:17,600
thought that was an interesting point

609
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:20,159
and i wonder if i could kind of pose a

610
00:22:24,149 --> 00:22:22,400
question putting it in broader context

611
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:24,159
because i'm not

612
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:26,320
super familiar with the history of ufos

613
00:22:30,149 --> 00:22:27,840
but it does seem like

614
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:30,159
there was a switch from a kind of era of

615
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:32,400
public discourse about

616
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:35,039
ufo sightings and experiences from the

617
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:38,640
contactee era to the disclosure era to

618
00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:40,960
now which is kind of the private space

619
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:42,400
venture area

620
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:44,880
you know let's do our break okay and

621
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:46,720
then we'll get into that we've got sue

622
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:48,880
we've got ufology we've got our guest

623
00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:50,480
co-host micah hanks

624
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that's 1-800-704-6182

721
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:13,909
hi this is don ecker and you are tuned

722
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:16,799
into the paracast let me tell you what

723
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:19,120
you're going to hear stuff here that you

724
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:22,480
probably won't hear anywhere else hear

725
00:27:27,190 --> 00:27:25,120
that george snorri

726
00:27:29,029 --> 00:27:27,200
we also have a second radio show called

727
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:29,039
after the power cast and what what's

728
00:27:34,950 --> 00:27:31,360
that all about well that's about getting

729
00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:34,960
our special subscription package for the

730
00:27:38,390 --> 00:27:37,120
show called powercast plus and for

731
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powercast plus we give you the

732
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:40,400
commercial free version of the show

733
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:42,559
we give you a small number of show

734
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:44,320
transcripts with certain people working

735
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:46,720
on more of them we hope and then we also

736
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:49,120
have some classic episodes

737
00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:51,120
we also have the after the power cast

738
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:52,960
podcast where we sometimes continue the

739
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:55,120
interview we continue the discussion or

740
00:27:59,190 --> 00:27:57,120
we have something totally different

741
00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:59,200
so last week for example this is where

742
00:28:03,269 --> 00:28:01,039
we got in trouble with chris we're

743
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:03,279
talking about the possibility that major

744
00:28:08,149 --> 00:28:05,120
political upheavals

745
00:28:10,149 --> 00:28:08,159
or major events that change things a lot

746
00:28:11,909 --> 00:28:10,159
will bring with them

747
00:28:13,029 --> 00:28:11,919
lots and lots of sightings so for

748
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:13,039
example

749
00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:15,760
when we had all the things around the

750
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:18,880
watergate episode in the early 70s think

751
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:21,600
about the ufo flaps all over the place

752
00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:22,640
or when

753
00:28:26,789 --> 00:28:25,679
reagan was elected president in 1980 a

754
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:26,799
lot of

755
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:29,200
changes in the way the political

756
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:32,159
structure was run in the u.s and various

757
00:28:36,549 --> 00:28:34,480
programs and everything lots of

758
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:36,559
paranormal events so that was one

759
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:38,320
particular thing right there

760
00:28:43,029 --> 00:28:41,120
that great change politically after

761
00:28:44,389 --> 00:28:43,039
world war ii of course

762
00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:44,399
will often

763
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:45,760
bring about

764
00:28:49,990 --> 00:28:48,000
an increase in paranormal events and

765
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:50,000
that might be the only

766
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:52,559
sort of pattern we see

767
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:54,720
in any case to learn more about the

768
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:58,080
powercast plus go to plus.powercast.com

769
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:01,039
it is spelled p l u s dot the

770
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:03,120
powercast.com

771
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:05,760
now you've had your organization going

772
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:07,120
randall for

773
00:29:11,190 --> 00:29:08,559
several decades

774
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:11,200
right have you seen a pattern in ufos we

775
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:12,960
used to have ley lines we used to have

776
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:14,399
seven year

777
00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:16,720
flaps five year flaps

778
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:19,440
but every time you try to hone in on one

779
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:21,919
of those patterns it changes

780
00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:23,919
it seems to me and this is the biggest

781
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:25,520
pattern that i've noticed is that in the

782
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:27,600
beginning of the modern era

783
00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:30,320
they were a lot more visible to us they

784
00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:33,120
were elusive still but they didn't seem

785
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:36,000
to do the vanishing act that we see and

786
00:29:40,630 --> 00:29:39,200
it seems that as our technology to

787
00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:40,640
detect them has increased in

788
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:42,320
sophistication

789
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:45,039
they've increased their ability to avoid

790
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:47,039
that detection sounds like kind of the

791
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:48,960
trickster element there that chris often

792
00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:50,559
talks about but that's an interesting

793
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:51,760
point to raise and i'll ask your

794
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:54,000
opinions about it on the power cast

795
00:29:57,990 --> 00:29:56,000
we've talked to people who are working

796
00:30:00,310 --> 00:29:58,000
on ufo detectors

797
00:30:01,830 --> 00:30:00,320
like this group from canada that is

798
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:01,840
going to launch

799
00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:04,559
a low earth orbit satellite or marked

800
00:30:09,430 --> 00:30:07,520
antonio and doug trumbull doing

801
00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:09,440
their particular

802
00:30:15,669 --> 00:30:10,640
ufo

803
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:15,679
with leslie kane

804
00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:17,600
and a number of people from the center

805
00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:19,360
for ufo studies

806
00:30:23,350 --> 00:30:20,880
so do you think having all this

807
00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:23,360
technology at our beck and call we get

808
00:30:29,350 --> 00:30:26,960
this ufo detector system up the ufo or

809
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:29,360
those responsible for the ufo

810
00:30:34,310 --> 00:30:31,520
presence they'll just change their

811
00:30:35,909 --> 00:30:34,320
methodology well i think that's what

812
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:35,919
they've been doing all along and that's

813
00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:37,679
been the pattern

814
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:40,320
so really it seems that it's up to them

815
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:42,000
to decide whether or not they want to

816
00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:44,000
reveal themselves to us

817
00:30:48,549 --> 00:30:46,640
it might increase the chances that

818
00:30:50,470 --> 00:30:48,559
if they make a mistake or they're not

819
00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:50,480
fully prepared that we might catch

820
00:30:55,029 --> 00:30:52,720
something by accident but that kind of

821
00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:55,039
leads into the whole concept of well how

822
00:30:59,750 --> 00:30:58,000
much more proof do we really need now

823
00:31:01,669 --> 00:30:59,760
there's those who

824
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:01,679
are willing to accept that alien

825
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:04,480
visitation is a reality and those who

826
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:06,880
are skeptical about it and and will

827
00:31:10,789 --> 00:31:08,880
refuse to believe probably

828
00:31:13,990 --> 00:31:10,799
unless they were given a free pass to a

829
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:14,000
mothership tour so that sounds like fun

830
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:16,240
you know and and even then i'm not sure

831
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:19,200
that they would actually believe so

832
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:21,440
my questioning of the whole disclosure

833
00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:23,840
thing is is it really necessary or

834
00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:25,679
should those of us who already know

835
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:26,720
they're here

836
00:31:31,269 --> 00:31:29,760
try to get on with the business of doing

837
00:31:33,430 --> 00:31:31,279
what we would do

838
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:33,440
on the assumption that they are already

839
00:31:38,070 --> 00:31:35,840
here what next yeah but doesn't that

840
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:38,080
also create the climate for making ufos

841
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:39,760
into a religion we already believe

842
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:40,960
they're here

843
00:31:45,430 --> 00:31:43,760
it's like saying we believe god is here

844
00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:45,440
and i'm not attacking any particular

845
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:46,880
religion i'm just

846
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:48,559
making them

847
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:50,960
similar that we know

848
00:31:56,389 --> 00:31:53,760
god is here that god is watching us we

849
00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:56,399
know the ufos are here we know ufos are

850
00:31:59,590 --> 00:31:57,840
watching us

851
00:32:02,070 --> 00:31:59,600
i think we have to go to the next step

852
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:02,080
it's not about belief it's about what we

853
00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:03,200
can prove

854
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:06,320
well i think that it's reasonable

855
00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:08,480
to believe that they're here based on

856
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:10,880
the evidence that's out there and

857
00:32:14,789 --> 00:32:12,799
scientific evidence isn't the only

858
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:14,799
standard by which it's reasonable to

859
00:32:18,549 --> 00:32:16,559
believe things

860
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:18,559
religion on the other hand

861
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:20,640
is involved with a lot of mythology and

862
00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:24,399
there's just not enough good evidence to

863
00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:26,880
support a belief in

864
00:32:30,149 --> 00:32:27,760
certain

865
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:30,159
kinds of religious deities

866
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:31,919
so i think you make a really good point

867
00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:33,679
that we have to be careful not to make

868
00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:35,039
up things

869
00:32:38,470 --> 00:32:37,200
that aren't reasonable or logically

870
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:38,480
consistent

871
00:32:41,509 --> 00:32:39,679
but if we

872
00:32:44,710 --> 00:32:41,519
be really careful about walking that

873
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:44,720
line and don't go over it into the cult

874
00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:46,480
of personality or they

875
00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:48,320
want to believe that their space brother

876
00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:50,000
is here to save the planet type of thing

877
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:52,880
i think that we can still

878
00:32:57,509 --> 00:32:55,120
have a world view that includes the

879
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:57,519
reality of alien visitation as opposed

880
00:33:00,470 --> 00:32:58,559
to being

881
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:00,480
simply unsure that it really exists

882
00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:03,679
because we can't scientifically prove it

883
00:33:08,149 --> 00:33:05,840
i love the standard of logical

884
00:33:09,269 --> 00:33:08,159
consistency applied to the presence of

885
00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:09,279
aliens

886
00:33:13,830 --> 00:33:11,679
the problem i have with the argument

887
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:13,840
that there's enough to believe that

888
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:15,039
they're here

889
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:17,200
without getting into the argument itself

890
00:33:21,909 --> 00:33:18,960
is that there are a lot of people who

891
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:21,919
disagree so what to make of their

892
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:23,600
disagreement

893
00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:27,760
are they all just wrong to me that's

894
00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:30,240
a reason to reflect further and not rush

895
00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:34,240
to belief for on my own part but i think

896
00:33:39,350 --> 00:33:37,120
you know the criteria of having logical

897
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:39,360
logical consistency and plausible

898
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:41,600
arguments can only

899
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:43,200
forward things

900
00:33:46,789 --> 00:33:44,720
you know what sue's talking about right

901
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:46,799
there brings us back to us a subject

902
00:33:50,549 --> 00:33:48,080
that you and i've addressed in the past

903
00:33:53,509 --> 00:33:50,559
before here on the pericast gene which

904
00:33:54,950 --> 00:33:53,519
is how can science be applied to a

905
00:33:56,789 --> 00:33:54,960
methodology for the study of this

906
00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:56,799
phenomena and one of the issues i think

907
00:34:01,350 --> 00:33:59,679
that we face with ufos is quite simply

908
00:34:03,430 --> 00:34:01,360
unlike in the scientific community where

909
00:34:05,909 --> 00:34:03,440
we look at the data and we say well with

910
00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:05,919
this data we have a consensus opinion

911
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:07,279
based on what is most likely and

912
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:09,359
therefore this is what science holds to

913
00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:11,440
be true based on our observations with

914
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:14,399
ufos is sue outlines and i think coming

915
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:15,679
back to randall's statements about there

916
00:34:19,829 --> 00:34:18,079
does seem to be enough to qualify for a

917
00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:19,839
discussion and yes we can make certain

918
00:34:22,629 --> 00:34:21,040
determinations about that but there

919
00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:22,639
doesn't seem to really be a consensus

920
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:24,960
opinion about what exactly the nature of

921
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:26,879
ufos if we take this to be anything i

922
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:28,480
would say alien maybe rather than

923
00:34:32,710 --> 00:34:30,000
extraterrestrial just because that would

924
00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:32,720
account for a number of non-human things

925
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:34,240
and that's still distinctly a

926
00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:36,000
hypothetical to me but again we don't

927
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:38,399
seem to have that consensus opinion

928
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:40,240
among ufologists about what exactly

929
00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:41,919
we're dealing with i mean again

930
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:44,320
extra-dimensional phenomena man-made

931
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:46,560
technologies that are kept off the books

932
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:48,800
alien visitation time travelers from the

933
00:34:51,909 --> 00:34:50,639
future some of this may sound absurd to

934
00:34:53,109 --> 00:34:51,919
the more skeptical thinkers but

935
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:53,119
nonetheless these are all things that

936
00:34:56,310 --> 00:34:54,800
have made their way into the discussion

937
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:56,320
and really there still seems to be no

938
00:35:00,069 --> 00:34:58,480
real hard consensus about this is most

939
00:35:01,990 --> 00:35:00,079
likely what's going on many would argue

940
00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:02,000
that extraterrestrial visitation is that

941
00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:04,320
consensus and for the ufological

942
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:05,680
community on the whole maybe it is but

943
00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:07,760
again i i sort of still abstain from

944
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:09,520
judgment because there are so many

945
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:11,119
different varieties of things that ufos

946
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:13,599
still seem to be capable of being and so

947
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:15,599
perhaps that consensus

948
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:17,280
does elude us in a sense and that would

949
00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:19,040
maybe be the difference between the

950
00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:21,599
scientific worldview versus you know the

951
00:35:25,109 --> 00:35:23,200
actual intelligence that we have about

952
00:35:27,510 --> 00:35:25,119
ufos and what to do with it

953
00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:27,520
oh some great points there micah i

954
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:29,200
happen to agree with you completely that

955
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:31,440
using the word alien is the way to go

956
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:32,720
with it because

957
00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:35,760
however it boils down once we begin

958
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:37,760
talking about the subject matter

959
00:35:41,829 --> 00:35:40,800
in terms of ufos what people were seeing

960
00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:41,839
and

961
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:44,160
investigating back when the term was

962
00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:45,920
first coined we were talking about

963
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:48,320
flying saucers ufos and flying saucers

964
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:49,680
are essentially

965
00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:51,920
the same thing ufo became a euphemism

966
00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:54,320
for flying saucers and we don't know

967
00:35:58,470 --> 00:35:56,160
exactly where they come from but we sure

968
00:36:00,710 --> 00:35:58,480
know they don't come from around here at

969
00:36:03,670 --> 00:36:00,720
least within the bounds of our known

970
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:03,680
civilization and by every definition

971
00:36:07,349 --> 00:36:05,520
wherever they come from that does make

972
00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:07,359
them alien

973
00:36:12,790 --> 00:36:10,079
yeah very good points there randall

974
00:36:13,990 --> 00:36:12,800
we assume that alien doesn't necessarily

975
00:36:15,910 --> 00:36:14,000
mean

976
00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:15,920
from another planet

977
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:17,920
exactly it could be an alien race that

978
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:18,880
is

979
00:36:24,150 --> 00:36:22,320
local to us but alien in the sense that

980
00:36:25,990 --> 00:36:24,160
it's not something that

981
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:26,000
is part of any particular country i mean

982
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:28,160
we refer to

983
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:30,640
immigrants at times as aliens you know

984
00:36:35,829 --> 00:36:34,079
one of the pejorative terms for

985
00:36:38,829 --> 00:36:35,839
immigrants that

986
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:38,839
are undocumented in the us is illegal

987
00:36:43,349 --> 00:36:41,520
aliens and i think okay well maybe we're

988
00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:43,359
talking about the ones who have gray

989
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:45,200
skins and they're short

990
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:47,280
we have randall we have sue we have

991
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:48,800
micah hanks

992
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:50,320
and chris o'brien's on special

993
00:36:59,050 --> 00:36:51,520
assignment

994
00:37:03,670 --> 00:37:00,150
[Applause]

995
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thousands call 866 91 steel 866 91

1109
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:17,670
hi it's grant cameron from presidential

1110
00:41:29,349 --> 00:41:21,440
ufo.com you're listening to the paracast

1111
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:30,950
listener round table with our guest

1112
00:41:35,190 --> 00:41:34,240
co-host micah hanks ensue

1113
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:35,200
and

1114
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:45,599
indications of exoplanets we were

1115
00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:48,000
talking to mark d'antonio

1116
00:41:52,950 --> 00:41:50,400
astronomer last week about this

1117
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:52,960
more and more planets out there in the

1118
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:54,240
cosmos

1119
00:41:58,630 --> 00:41:56,160
that may have conditions suitable to

1120
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:58,640
life and maybe we are a bunch of happy

1121
00:42:02,230 --> 00:42:00,720
accidents here to get where we are

1122
00:42:03,670 --> 00:42:02,240
although some people think this is a

1123
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:03,680
kind of accident that needs to be

1124
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:06,079
cleaned up regardless

1125
00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:08,960
it does create at least the mathematical

1126
00:42:13,030 --> 00:42:11,280
possibility that's happened elsewhere

1127
00:42:15,670 --> 00:42:13,040
and maybe very often

1128
00:42:17,990 --> 00:42:15,680
so it was an excellent show

1129
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:18,000
by the way excellent guest excellent

1130
00:42:20,309 --> 00:42:19,280
show

1131
00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:20,319
so

1132
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:21,599
what do we do

1133
00:42:25,349 --> 00:42:23,920
well i think the eth is

1134
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:25,359
reasonably

1135
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:27,280
the most logical

1136
00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:28,800
way to look at the

1137
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:31,440
situation but it's not the only one as

1138
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:34,240
micah said the eth is logical it has

1139
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:37,760
logical consistency it has plausibility

1140
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:39,599
we look to be doing

1141
00:42:43,750 --> 00:42:42,000
the same thing ourselves in the future

1142
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:43,760
traveling out to other star systems so

1143
00:42:47,990 --> 00:42:45,599
there's not much reason to think that

1144
00:42:49,829 --> 00:42:48,000
they might not be coming here on the

1145
00:42:51,510 --> 00:42:49,839
other hand things like

1146
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:51,520
extra dimensional

1147
00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:54,079
or time travelers although we see that a

1148
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:56,240
lot in science fiction and there is some

1149
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:59,040
science mostly pop science that claims

1150
00:43:03,349 --> 00:43:01,200
it's possible really when you look at it

1151
00:43:06,069 --> 00:43:03,359
from a logical consistency point of view

1152
00:43:08,069 --> 00:43:06,079
it's not really possible not in the way

1153
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:08,079
people think of it so i think we can

1154
00:43:12,470 --> 00:43:10,480
rule out some things and say other

1155
00:43:14,150 --> 00:43:12,480
things are more favorable

1156
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:14,160
yeah i think it's important by the way

1157
00:43:17,349 --> 00:43:16,640
is we're all having this conversation uh

1158
00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:17,359
to

1159
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:21,280
potentials and possibilities i you know

1160
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:22,960
i can sense that all of us are putting

1161
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:24,880
forward ideas and we're fairly

1162
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:26,400
discussing things that like you say

1163
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:29,760
randall maybe they are not as logically

1164
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:31,680
plausible as certain other potentials

1165
00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:33,359
and you know because in the past for

1166
00:43:36,390 --> 00:43:34,880
instance and i wrote a book a few years

1167
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:36,400
ago called the ufo singularity that

1168
00:43:39,510 --> 00:43:37,440
looked it well

1169
00:43:41,109 --> 00:43:39,520
let's look at some hypotheticals if we

1170
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:41,119
were talking about for instance alien

1171
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:44,079
visitation we are now seeing the rigors

1172
00:43:47,109 --> 00:43:46,400
of space travel before us and the kinds

1173
00:43:49,190 --> 00:43:47,119
of

1174
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:49,200
things that happen to biological life

1175
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:50,880
that spends time in space i mean we see

1176
00:43:53,589 --> 00:43:51,839
swelling

1177
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:53,599
of the eyes and other organs we see

1178
00:43:59,030 --> 00:43:56,560
atrophy of musculature we see a lot of

1179
00:44:01,910 --> 00:43:59,040
things that are negatively impacting

1180
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:01,920
biology when we presumably humans or

1181
00:44:04,950 --> 00:44:03,040
anyone else or any other kind of

1182
00:44:07,030 --> 00:44:04,960
biological life form spends time off

1183
00:44:10,309 --> 00:44:07,040
planet because we evolved to exist in

1184
00:44:12,630 --> 00:44:10,319
this habitat in this gravitational uh

1185
00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:12,640
environment here on planet earth

1186
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:13,920
that's one example of a number of

1187
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:15,520
different things the rigors of space

1188
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:18,000
travel may present in terms of issues we

1189
00:44:21,430 --> 00:44:19,680
would face trying to become a space

1190
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:21,440
faring civilization ourselves so as a

1191
00:44:23,910 --> 00:44:22,640
hypothetical

1192
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:23,920
with that book and i didn't want it to

1193
00:44:26,710 --> 00:44:25,359
be called the ufo singularity i've

1194
00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:26,720
talked about this many times my

1195
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:29,040
wonderful publishers and i mean that in

1196
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:30,160
in true love because they're wonderful

1197
00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:31,920
people and i'm friends with them but you

1198
00:44:34,950 --> 00:44:33,359
know publishers do tend to pick out the

1199
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:34,960
titles of books and they wanted ufo in

1200
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:37,920
the title therefore many interpreted the

1201
00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:39,520
meaning of that book as being this is

1202
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:42,560
what micah hanks believes or if i didn't

1203
00:44:47,430 --> 00:44:45,280
seem to state it as belief that ufos are

1204
00:44:49,589 --> 00:44:47,440
some roboticized intelligence that has

1205
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:49,599
augmented itself perhaps post

1206
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:51,760
biologically which is why the book was

1207
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:54,240
called ufo singularity it did bring into

1208
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:56,160
the discussion artificial intelligence

1209
00:45:01,510 --> 00:44:58,240
and transhumanism these seem like

1210
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:01,520
logical things that would probably befit

1211
00:45:06,069 --> 00:45:03,920
an advanced civilization in order for

1212
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:06,079
them to be able to become uh

1213
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:08,560
interstellarly mobile we'll say

1214
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:09,280
but again you know these are

1215
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:10,720
hypotheticals and i think it's fair to

1216
00:45:14,309 --> 00:45:12,640
be able to talk about hypotheticals and

1217
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:14,319
look at the likelies versus the more

1218
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:15,920
unlikely and still have a fair

1219
00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:17,200
discussion i'm glad we're having this

1220
00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:18,640
discussion but i just want to point out

1221
00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:20,640
that as much as i in my own book whereas

1222
00:45:24,390 --> 00:45:22,240
randall discusses these things you know

1223
00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:24,400
or is sue brings certain points to the

1224
00:45:27,270 --> 00:45:26,240
table here uh or even gene for that

1225
00:45:28,870 --> 00:45:27,280
matter i mean we can have that

1226
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:28,880
discussion without saying this is what

1227
00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:30,480
we believe i'm sure someone will listen

1228
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:32,560
to this roundtable discussion at some

1229
00:45:35,829 --> 00:45:34,160
point and say well you know randall

1230
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:35,839
seems to believe this or sue seemed to

1231
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:37,680
think that it's important to have this

1232
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:38,800
discussion and look at these

1233
00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:40,800
possibilities outside of what the most

1234
00:45:45,109 --> 00:45:43,440
logical primaries may be and i think

1235
00:45:47,190 --> 00:45:45,119
that that's great that you bring up time

1236
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:47,200
travel in that context because yeah

1237
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:48,720
while it does seem to be a generic

1238
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:50,800
feature of relativity and it does seem

1239
00:45:55,430 --> 00:45:53,280
to be consistent with relativistic views

1240
00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:55,440
on physics it does not seem likely that

1241
00:46:00,790 --> 00:45:58,000
is it is something that at least in any

1242
00:46:01,670 --> 00:46:00,800
any future sense that we might all live

1243
00:46:03,430 --> 00:46:01,680
to see

1244
00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:03,440
that will become something that is a

1245
00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:05,760
actual reality i.e time travelers from

1246
00:46:09,750 --> 00:46:07,520
the future and many argue we haven't

1247
00:46:11,510 --> 00:46:09,760
seen any evidence of them either unless

1248
00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:11,520
of course and even carl sagan pointed

1249
00:46:16,150 --> 00:46:14,160
this out we have mistaken some phenomena

1250
00:46:18,069 --> 00:46:16,160
for being something else rather than

1251
00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:18,079
that and he had even said at times

1252
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:19,920
perhaps ufos ghosts something along

1253
00:46:23,910 --> 00:46:21,839
those lines could be that evidence of

1254
00:46:25,589 --> 00:46:23,920
the time travelers we have mistaken it

1255
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:25,599
as being something else who knows i

1256
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:27,040
think it's fair to be open-minded about

1257
00:46:29,750 --> 00:46:28,480
these kind of things and sure have the

1258
00:46:31,750 --> 00:46:29,760
discussion

1259
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:31,760
yeah exploring the possibilities is what

1260
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:34,240
makes ufos fun

1261
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:35,760
absolutely

1262
00:46:41,270 --> 00:46:38,560
and great points micah well thank you i

1263
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:41,280
certainly don't know for sure myself

1264
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:42,720
where they come from

1265
00:46:47,109 --> 00:46:45,040
but i certainly do believe they're here

1266
00:46:48,069 --> 00:46:47,119
or at least have been here in the recent

1267
00:46:51,670 --> 00:46:48,079
future

1268
00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:53,750
i i also want to say one theory that

1269
00:46:57,750 --> 00:46:55,920
hasn't reached the table first and sue

1270
00:46:59,430 --> 00:46:57,760
maybe we'll go to you first on this one

1271
00:47:01,990 --> 00:46:59,440
walter bosley recently appeared on the

1272
00:47:03,829 --> 00:47:02,000
pericast here and he was discussing and

1273
00:47:06,630 --> 00:47:03,839
he's often said the same thing hey i

1274
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:06,640
like to put hypotheticals on the table

1275
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:08,640
people are constantly nitpicking over he

1276
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:10,640
says being able to express different

1277
00:47:14,630 --> 00:47:12,960
ideas sometimes those which sure may

1278
00:47:16,470 --> 00:47:14,640
fall outside the general discussion of

1279
00:47:18,069 --> 00:47:16,480
modern science it's fun to be able to

1280
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:18,079
have these conversations so let's have

1281
00:47:21,670 --> 00:47:19,599
them and one thing that he's brought to

1282
00:47:24,390 --> 00:47:21,680
the table as far as his own

1283
00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:24,400
interests is this idea of some sort of a

1284
00:47:29,030 --> 00:47:26,400
indigenous civilization a crypto

1285
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:29,040
terrestrial civilization or maybe a

1286
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:31,520
breakaway civilization and how this has

1287
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:33,520
something to do with the ufo phenomena

1288
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:35,520
sue or randall or both what are your

1289
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,800
thoughts about this

1290
00:47:40,950 --> 00:47:38,400
breakaway civilization

1291
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:40,960
is a really new idea to me i don't know

1292
00:47:46,550 --> 00:47:43,680
how comfortable i am with it i haven't

1293
00:47:49,109 --> 00:47:46,560
read much or listened to much so i can't

1294
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:49,119
really do it justice i think my initial

1295
00:47:53,510 --> 00:47:51,280
reaction would be to say that it's good

1296
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:53,520
to be open-minded about

1297
00:47:58,630 --> 00:47:56,400
another order of existence out there

1298
00:48:01,030 --> 00:47:58,640
that is separate from what we think of

1299
00:48:03,670 --> 00:48:01,040
as the way things must be

1300
00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:03,680
and i always enjoy walter bosley's stuff

1301
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:05,920
because he comes up with such crazy

1302
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:08,160
ideas and he makes such good arguments

1303
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:10,800
for them it's it's a lot of fun to read

1304
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:13,760
yeah sure it is fun and bosley's an

1305
00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:16,000
interesting character but i don't buy

1306
00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:18,640
into the breakaway civilization thing

1307
00:48:22,710 --> 00:48:20,400
although there have been some people

1308
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:22,720
who've looked at it not so much as a

1309
00:48:27,109 --> 00:48:25,680
separate civilization say living on an

1310
00:48:28,549 --> 00:48:27,119
island someplace that we haven't

1311
00:48:30,470 --> 00:48:28,559
discovered yet but

1312
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:30,480
actually mixed in

1313
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:32,720
within our own society in ways that

1314
00:48:36,549 --> 00:48:35,040
we're not immediately aware of through

1315
00:48:38,309 --> 00:48:36,559
secrecy and

1316
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:38,319
corporate and government projects and

1317
00:48:41,349 --> 00:48:39,760
that sort of thing

1318
00:48:43,510 --> 00:48:41,359
but i think those it's important to

1319
00:48:45,270 --> 00:48:43,520
separate those two ideas

1320
00:48:47,109 --> 00:48:45,280
in either case i don't think there's

1321
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:47,119
enough evidence for it simply because

1322
00:48:52,069 --> 00:48:49,599
the technology that the ufos have

1323
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:52,079
demonstrated is just so far beyond

1324
00:48:56,069 --> 00:48:53,520
anything that

1325
00:48:58,470 --> 00:48:56,079
we've developed ourselves even since the

1326
00:49:00,549 --> 00:48:58,480
beginning of flight that would mean that

1327
00:49:02,309 --> 00:49:00,559
wherever they come from if they come

1328
00:49:03,990 --> 00:49:02,319
from earth they must have come from some

1329
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:04,000
distant past and there's not enough

1330
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:06,000
archaeological evidence to support that

1331
00:49:10,870 --> 00:49:08,640
either it would require a large

1332
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:10,880
civilization and a lot of infrastructure

1333
00:49:14,790 --> 00:49:13,359
and there just simply isn't any evidence

1334
00:49:16,630 --> 00:49:14,800
of it so

1335
00:49:18,549 --> 00:49:16,640
the ancient aliens

1336
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:18,559
i'm sorry to have to say for those who

1337
00:49:22,549 --> 00:49:20,559
are listening go on to youtube and look

1338
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:22,559
up a video called ancient aliens

1339
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:25,920
debunked and it is really good counter

1340
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:28,240
to the ancient aliens hypothesis it's

1341
00:49:32,069 --> 00:49:30,640
very sensible and scientific and anyone

1342
00:49:34,309 --> 00:49:32,079
who believes in the ancient aliens

1343
00:49:36,790 --> 00:49:34,319
hypothesis should have a look at that

1344
00:49:38,470 --> 00:49:36,800
yeah i often get a lot of flack for

1345
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:38,480
being so dismissive of the ancient alien

1346
00:49:42,309 --> 00:49:40,480
hypothesis when asked to come on that

1347
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:42,319
program the first question of course you

1348
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:44,480
were typically asked by the producers is

1349
00:49:48,069 --> 00:49:46,079
uh are you an advocate of the ancient

1350
00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:48,079
alien hypothesis and so when asked that

1351
00:49:51,589 --> 00:49:49,760
question myself of course my response

1352
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:51,599
was well no but i think i could offer

1353
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:53,280
some good skeptical positions on that

1354
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:54,880
and of course i wasn't invited back to

1355
00:49:58,790 --> 00:49:56,640
be on the show but the producers and i

1356
00:50:01,109 --> 00:49:58,800
had a nice conversation nonetheless

1357
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:01,119
i'll say that if we were to redefine

1358
00:50:04,790 --> 00:50:03,280
breakaway civilization and put it in a

1359
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:04,800
slightly different context once again

1360
00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:06,720
much like ufos perhaps the problem is we

1361
00:50:09,990 --> 00:50:08,480
don't have a real consensus idea of what

1362
00:50:11,190 --> 00:50:10,000
exactly we mean when we say that when

1363
00:50:12,470 --> 00:50:11,200
richard dolan

1364
00:50:14,309 --> 00:50:12,480
brought that idea

1365
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:14,319
into the dialogue a few years ago he

1366
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:15,920
said i just put it out as just again a

1367
00:50:18,309 --> 00:50:17,440
hypothetical i had no idea that there

1368
00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:18,319
would be

1369
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:19,680
conferences that were built around it

1370
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:20,880
and other authors would take up the

1371
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:22,640
mantle and write books about it and he

1372
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:24,240
says and i don't necessarily endorse the

1373
00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:25,760
idea but what if a breakaway

1374
00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:27,440
civilization rather than being something

1375
00:50:31,510 --> 00:50:29,520
ancient which i agree randall seems far

1376
00:50:33,589 --> 00:50:31,520
from likely to me what if it were a

1377
00:50:35,829 --> 00:50:33,599
technological presence within our

1378
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:35,839
existing international political

1379
00:50:41,349 --> 00:50:39,200
economic intel a technological sphere

1380
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:41,359
something that is kept off the books but

1381
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:43,200
once again is representative of an

1382
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:44,880
element within

1383
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:47,040
earth civilization today that is moving

1384
00:50:52,710 --> 00:50:49,760
apart from an undercover secrecy many

1385
00:50:54,549 --> 00:50:52,720
think that that is entirely unlikely but

1386
00:50:57,430 --> 00:50:54,559
i would say it must be at least as

1387
00:51:00,069 --> 00:50:57,440
plausible as the idea of et visitation

1388
00:51:01,990 --> 00:51:00,079
to earth it would seem unusual that such

1389
00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:02,000
things would be kept from the public but

1390
00:51:05,589 --> 00:51:03,440
once again this brings us back to the

1391
00:51:06,950 --> 00:51:05,599
discussion of innumerable things that

1392
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:06,960
have been kept from public knowledge

1393
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:09,520
think about mk ultra they had hoped the

1394
00:51:13,030 --> 00:51:11,520
cia that the documents that actually

1395
00:51:15,109 --> 00:51:13,040
detailed the atrocities that occurred

1396
00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:15,119
the illegal activities they had hoped

1397
00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:17,040
that they would be destroyed before they

1398
00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:19,200
could actually be released to the public

1399
00:51:23,349 --> 00:51:21,040
a few of the documents were not and made

1400
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:23,359
it to the congressional uh review that

1401
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:25,200
occurred a few years later and that's

1402
00:51:29,270 --> 00:51:27,280
how we even know about it and yes and so

1403
00:51:31,910 --> 00:51:29,280
that discourse has at very least been

1404
00:51:34,150 --> 00:51:31,920
kept mostly off the record

1405
00:51:36,390 --> 00:51:34,160
our guest co-host is micah hanks we have

1406
00:51:38,150 --> 00:51:36,400
ufology ensue as part of our listener

1407
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:38,160
round table

1408
00:51:42,730 --> 00:51:50,230
[Music]

1409
00:51:54,990 --> 00:51:53,670
thank you for listening to gcn

1410
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:55,000
be sure to visit

1411
00:51:59,829 --> 00:51:57,760
gcnlive.com today

1412
00:52:02,150 --> 00:51:59,839
attack of the rockoids has been well

1413
00:52:03,670 --> 00:52:02,160
received by critics and readers alike

1414
00:52:05,109 --> 00:52:03,680
it's a thrill a minute story you'll

1415
00:52:07,030 --> 00:52:05,119
never forget

1416
00:52:09,510 --> 00:52:07,040
a former us military intelligence

1417
00:52:12,069 --> 00:52:09,520
officer is haunted by intense dreams

1418
00:52:14,470 --> 00:52:12,079
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

1419
00:52:15,510 --> 00:52:14,480
help after a terrible battle in outer

1420
00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:15,520
space

1421
00:52:19,670 --> 00:52:17,680
but the dreams turn out to be true and

1422
00:52:22,390 --> 00:52:19,680
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

1423
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:22,400
with a woman whose far away planet is

1424
00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:24,800
intent on destroying the earth

1425
00:52:29,750 --> 00:52:27,280
and now the gripping tale continues in

1426
00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:29,760
the coming of the protectors it's the

1427
00:52:34,549 --> 00:52:32,319
second book of the rockoids trilogy a

1428
00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:34,559
galaxy spanning adventure that pits our

1429
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:36,800
hapless heroes against powerful

1430
00:52:40,950 --> 00:52:39,040
fanatical enemies that threaten the

1431
00:52:42,150 --> 00:52:40,960
lives of freedom-loving beings

1432
00:52:44,790 --> 00:52:42,160
everywhere

1433
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:44,800
attack of the rochoids and the coming of

1434
00:52:50,230 --> 00:52:47,760
the protectors classic science fiction

1435
00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:50,240
at its best available now

1436
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:53,440
for more details visit rockoids.com

1437
00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:01,190
looking for that edge during those

1438
00:53:05,349 --> 00:53:03,520
intimate moments we see many ads for

1439
00:53:08,069 --> 00:53:05,359
enhancement but the side effects include

1440
00:53:10,069 --> 00:53:08,079
death at gcn team we should change the

1441
00:53:12,069 --> 00:53:10,079
healthy body brain and heart pack to the

1442
00:53:13,910 --> 00:53:12,079
healthy libido pack the brain and heart

1443
00:53:16,309 --> 00:53:13,920
are not the only organs that require a

1444
00:53:19,349 --> 00:53:16,319
healthy vascular system for proper blood

1445
00:53:21,630 --> 00:53:19,359
flow at the right moment go to gcnt.com

1446
00:53:25,750 --> 00:53:21,640
or call

1447
00:53:29,109 --> 00:53:25,760
877-878-4203 that's 877-878-4203

1448
00:53:32,710 --> 00:53:30,630
do you ever feel like you're being

1449
00:53:34,870 --> 00:53:32,720
watched like someone or some company is

1450
00:53:37,190 --> 00:53:34,880
tracking your every move online i know i

1451
00:53:39,349 --> 00:53:37,200
do that's why i trust private internet

1452
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:39,359
access vpn to keep me safe when i'm

1453
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:41,520
online i use it to encrypt my traffic

1454
00:53:45,589 --> 00:53:43,839
and use an anonymous ip address private

1455
00:53:47,829 --> 00:53:45,599
internet access keeps your internet

1456
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:47,839
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1457
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:50,160
can finally feel safe forty dollars a

1458
00:53:54,349 --> 00:53:52,640
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1459
00:53:56,150 --> 00:53:54,359
sign up today at

1460
00:54:02,680 --> 00:53:56,160
privateinternetaccess.com once again

1461
00:54:06,549 --> 00:54:03,950
[Music]

1462
00:54:09,829 --> 00:54:06,559
[Applause]

1463
00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:09,839
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1464
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:13,440
standard of paranormal radio

1465
00:54:18,020 --> 00:54:14,720
and now

1466
00:54:22,069 --> 00:54:18,030
here's gene steinberg

1467
00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:24,150
sue has become robotic she's been taken

1468
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:25,839
over by an artificial

1469
00:54:28,870 --> 00:54:27,280
intelligence

1470
00:54:30,950 --> 00:54:28,880
it's the nanites

1471
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:30,960
is that what it is yep

1472
00:54:39,829 --> 00:54:37,589
as they say nano nano

1473
00:54:41,670 --> 00:54:39,839
that was morgan mindy right

1474
00:54:43,910 --> 00:54:41,680
yes it was

1475
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:43,920
and originally they hired robin williams

1476
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:46,400
to do a segment of happy days

1477
00:54:49,270 --> 00:54:47,760
i don't know how much of that he

1478
00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:49,280
improvised and how much of that was

1479
00:54:53,349 --> 00:54:51,440
written in script the other thing about

1480
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:53,359
it though is that when they went to the

1481
00:54:58,390 --> 00:54:56,400
tv series i always thought it was

1482
00:54:59,990 --> 00:54:58,400
kind of distilled

1483
00:55:01,349 --> 00:55:00,000
it wasn't quite as

1484
00:55:03,910 --> 00:55:01,359
hard-hitting

1485
00:55:06,230 --> 00:55:03,920
or spontaneous perhaps probably because

1486
00:55:07,829 --> 00:55:06,240
you have a 30-minute thing yeah i never

1487
00:55:08,870 --> 00:55:07,839
watched it much actually yeah i didn't

1488
00:55:10,230 --> 00:55:08,880
either

1489
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:10,240
well i guess i'll have to be the only

1490
00:55:13,990 --> 00:55:12,000
representative late night tv junkie when

1491
00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:14,000
i was a kid growing up nick at night was

1492
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:16,480
my thing i watched bewitched i dream of

1493
00:55:19,829 --> 00:55:18,480
jeannie the monsters

1494
00:55:21,109 --> 00:55:19,839
all these kind of shows i loved those

1495
00:55:22,870 --> 00:55:21,119
shows when i was a kid these days i

1496
00:55:24,309 --> 00:55:22,880
don't watch as much tv and people always

1497
00:55:26,230 --> 00:55:24,319
laugh and say mikey your favorite show

1498
00:55:27,829 --> 00:55:26,240
must be the x-files right

1499
00:55:29,270 --> 00:55:27,839
and in truth i think i've probably

1500
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:29,280
watched about three episodes of the

1501
00:55:32,630 --> 00:55:30,720
x-files it's one of those shows i could

1502
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:32,640
never really get into i'll tell you

1503
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:34,480
something about the x-files they had a

1504
00:55:40,230 --> 00:55:38,319
six-episode reboot where they come back

1505
00:55:42,390 --> 00:55:40,240
the original characters and they go

1506
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:42,400
through six stories that supposedly

1507
00:55:45,910 --> 00:55:44,559
echoed the kind of stories they ran as

1508
00:55:47,910 --> 00:55:45,920
part of the original series and the

1509
00:55:50,870 --> 00:55:47,920
ratings are pretty decent you know the

1510
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:50,880
average tv ratings for a network show is

1511
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:53,280
much less today than it was 10 15 years

1512
00:55:56,309 --> 00:55:54,160
ago

1513
00:55:59,030 --> 00:55:56,319
and they might do more in a year or two

1514
00:56:01,349 --> 00:55:59,040
but it left off with a cliffhanger with

1515
00:56:03,270 --> 00:56:01,359
no indication they'd ever do it again

1516
00:56:05,589 --> 00:56:03,280
and i think that was kind of unfortunate

1517
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:05,599
but the thing they did though which

1518
00:56:08,950 --> 00:56:07,599
might be interesting

1519
00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:08,960
is that

1520
00:56:13,990 --> 00:56:10,960
they changed the

1521
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:14,000
conspiracy before it was e.t doing

1522
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:15,119
everything

1523
00:56:20,390 --> 00:56:17,440
now it was the government taking

1524
00:56:21,270 --> 00:56:20,400
technology from roswell

1525
00:56:24,470 --> 00:56:21,280
and

1526
00:56:26,069 --> 00:56:24,480
engaging in these conspiratorial acts

1527
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:26,079
right and that brings us back to what

1528
00:56:30,630 --> 00:56:28,400
mica was talking about in the sort of

1529
00:56:33,270 --> 00:56:30,640
breakaway civilization thing

1530
00:56:34,390 --> 00:56:33,280
and how we look at what the word ufo

1531
00:56:36,470 --> 00:56:34,400
means and

1532
00:56:39,109 --> 00:56:36,480
we at usi we

1533
00:56:42,230 --> 00:56:39,119
consider a ufo to be a craft of alien

1534
00:56:45,190 --> 00:56:42,240
origin well a breakaway civilization

1535
00:56:48,230 --> 00:56:45,200
that is secret from the rest of society

1536
00:56:50,710 --> 00:56:48,240
i think a pretty good case could be made

1537
00:56:53,510 --> 00:56:50,720
to say that yes that is alien to the

1538
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:53,520
rest of us we don't know about it it's

1539
00:56:58,390 --> 00:56:56,240
from outside the constructs of our

1540
00:57:00,230 --> 00:56:58,400
normal everyday existence and

1541
00:57:02,950 --> 00:57:00,240
in this case it must be outside the

1542
00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:02,960
constructs of even most political

1543
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:05,520
constructs so i i think it would be fair

1544
00:57:10,309 --> 00:57:08,640
to say that some ufos could be from one

1545
00:57:12,630 --> 00:57:10,319
of these types of

1546
00:57:14,710 --> 00:57:12,640
breakaway civilizations but i don't

1547
00:57:17,109 --> 00:57:14,720
think that covers it all because like

1548
00:57:19,109 --> 00:57:17,119
you're saying there in x-files episode

1549
00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:19,119
they're taking technology that was

1550
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:22,240
recovered from roswell so it still

1551
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:24,319
seems to me that even in the reality of

1552
00:57:29,109 --> 00:57:26,160
the thing we're looking at technology

1553
00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:29,119
that is so far beyond what we had back

1554
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:31,440
in the 50s and 60s and even today for

1555
00:57:35,910 --> 00:57:33,839
that matter that it doesn't seem

1556
00:57:37,829 --> 00:57:35,920
possible that it actually

1557
00:57:38,950 --> 00:57:37,839
is something that we came up with

1558
00:57:40,950 --> 00:57:38,960
ourselves

1559
00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:40,960
you know to that point i would like to

1560
00:57:44,150 --> 00:57:42,960
just really quickly add something and

1561
00:57:46,069 --> 00:57:44,160
then this is just a this is just a

1562
00:57:47,510 --> 00:57:46,079
comparison but but you know let's put

1563
00:57:49,030 --> 00:57:47,520
this on the table when we look at the

1564
00:57:51,430 --> 00:57:49,040
ancient alien hypothesis one of the

1565
00:57:53,670 --> 00:57:51,440
gripes many people have is that well we

1566
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:53,680
suppose that ancient people could not

1567
00:57:57,589 --> 00:57:55,599
have created a technology like this you

1568
00:57:59,270 --> 00:57:57,599
know to build for instance monuments

1569
00:58:01,589 --> 00:57:59,280
like the pyramids the the great wonders

1570
00:58:03,829 --> 00:58:01,599
of the ancient world uh when we assert

1571
00:58:06,470 --> 00:58:03,839
that aliens had to assist humans we

1572
00:58:08,549 --> 00:58:06,480
undermine human ingenuity now maybe this

1573
00:58:11,109 --> 00:58:08,559
isn't exactly the case but

1574
00:58:13,190 --> 00:58:11,119
would it be fair to ask that to assume

1575
00:58:15,190 --> 00:58:13,200
that for a breakaway civilization to

1576
00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:15,200
exist and to have such technology that

1577
00:58:19,349 --> 00:58:17,040
they had to borrow it from aliens is

1578
00:58:21,030 --> 00:58:19,359
that in the same way maybe rather than

1579
00:58:22,710 --> 00:58:21,040
undermining because i think that has you

1580
00:58:24,549 --> 00:58:22,720
know kind of negative connotations but

1581
00:58:26,630 --> 00:58:24,559
let's say to presume that we had to

1582
00:58:28,789 --> 00:58:26,640
reverse engineer alien craft in order to

1583
00:58:31,829 --> 00:58:28,799
have this technology does that uh once

1584
00:58:33,109 --> 00:58:31,839
again attribute to an unexplainable what

1585
00:58:35,270 --> 00:58:33,119
very well may be something that

1586
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:35,280
somewhere humans did of their own accord

1587
00:58:38,549 --> 00:58:37,440
with their own intelligence develop i

1588
00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:38,559
mean just looking at that from a

1589
00:58:42,710 --> 00:58:40,240
different angle and playing devil's

1590
00:58:44,950 --> 00:58:42,720
advocate oh absolutely micah i think

1591
00:58:46,630 --> 00:58:44,960
you're correct with that i think quite a

1592
00:58:49,589 --> 00:58:46,640
few the claims that corso makes for

1593
00:58:52,630 --> 00:58:49,599
example were legitimate human scientific

1594
00:58:54,549 --> 00:58:52,640
breakthroughs transistors and so on

1595
00:58:55,990 --> 00:58:54,559
and micro circuits and that sort of

1596
00:58:59,109 --> 00:58:56,000
thing but

1597
00:59:01,349 --> 00:58:59,119
none of those things still explain how a

1598
00:59:03,349 --> 00:59:01,359
craft can be tracked on radar and

1599
00:59:05,430 --> 00:59:03,359
followed by a jet and then have it come

1600
00:59:06,630 --> 00:59:05,440
to an instant stop and then change

1601
00:59:10,069 --> 00:59:06,640
direction

1602
00:59:12,630 --> 00:59:10,079
pretty much instantly and zoom off at uh

1603
00:59:14,630 --> 00:59:12,640
in 20 000 miles an hour it there's

1604
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:14,640
nothing that we've got that can do that

1605
00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:15,520
yet

1606
00:59:22,390 --> 00:59:18,960
let alone back in the 50s so here's my

1607
00:59:24,549 --> 00:59:22,400
problem with breakaway technology as

1608
00:59:27,510 --> 00:59:24,559
opposed to breakaway civilization which

1609
00:59:30,789 --> 00:59:27,520
i can kind of handle that idea

1610
00:59:34,390 --> 00:59:30,799
breakaway technology i just i'm not sure

1611
00:59:37,430 --> 00:59:34,400
you can hide a whole technology

1612
00:59:39,349 --> 00:59:37,440
and this is like a kind of uninformed

1613
00:59:41,510 --> 00:59:39,359
opinion but i'm

1614
00:59:43,670 --> 00:59:41,520
reasoning from the parallel fact that

1615
00:59:46,309 --> 00:59:43,680
the technology we have in our society

1616
00:59:48,710 --> 00:59:46,319
has such a massive environmental impact

1617
00:59:51,109 --> 00:59:48,720
if you have a hidden secret breakaway

1618
00:59:52,710 --> 00:59:51,119
technology wouldn't you at least see

1619
00:59:55,190 --> 00:59:52,720
some kinds of

1620
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:55,200
environmental impacts or other trace

1621
00:59:59,829 --> 00:59:57,920
evidence of its existence that's where i

1622
01:00:01,030 --> 00:59:59,839
have problems with the whole breakaway

1623
01:00:02,870 --> 01:00:01,040
idea

1624
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:02,880
yeah yeah but we both agree that's a

1625
01:00:08,789 --> 01:00:05,680
great point and and um

1626
01:00:10,470 --> 01:00:08,799
someone else i mean just to add to that

1627
01:00:12,710 --> 01:00:10,480
i think someone else would have come up

1628
01:00:13,750 --> 01:00:12,720
with it by now if it was

1629
01:00:17,589 --> 01:00:13,760
that

1630
01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:17,599
technology

1631
01:00:23,030 --> 01:00:19,680
it wouldn't be only the military that's

1632
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:23,040
had it since the 50s someone else

1633
01:00:27,109 --> 01:00:24,960
would have invented it and made it and

1634
01:00:30,069 --> 01:00:27,119
we'd be seeing it in pretty much

1635
01:00:32,230 --> 01:00:30,079
everyday use somewhere but we don't

1636
01:00:33,910 --> 01:00:32,240
it's it's a very strange

1637
01:00:35,109 --> 01:00:33,920
discussion when we really start breaking

1638
01:00:37,510 --> 01:00:35,119
all this down i like what we're all

1639
01:00:39,510 --> 01:00:37,520
doing here because we are kind of taking

1640
01:00:42,150 --> 01:00:39,520
uh each individual

1641
01:00:44,630 --> 01:00:42,160
hypothetical as related to ufos and

1642
01:00:46,150 --> 01:00:44,640
saying what seems most likely many ufo

1643
01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:46,160
skeptics i know robert shaffer he's been

1644
01:00:50,069 --> 01:00:47,520
a guest on the show and i correspond

1645
01:00:53,109 --> 01:00:50,079
with bob from time to time um

1646
01:00:55,030 --> 01:00:53,119
bob has taken issue uh with one of the

1647
01:00:57,589 --> 01:00:55,040
facts that i presented i'm sorry not a

1648
01:00:59,030 --> 01:00:57,599
fact but a an idea which had been that

1649
01:01:01,910 --> 01:00:59,040
hey some of these things very well may

1650
01:01:03,109 --> 01:01:01,920
be some government technology bob uh

1651
01:01:04,950 --> 01:01:03,119
took issue with that and had said you

1652
01:01:06,710 --> 01:01:04,960
know i think that if that were the case

1653
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:06,720
there would be either release of that

1654
01:01:10,870 --> 01:01:08,400
information already or there should be

1655
01:01:12,789 --> 01:01:10,880
some other evidence that that technology

1656
01:01:15,270 --> 01:01:12,799
exists which comes back to what uh sue

1657
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:15,280
was saying but you know so i said

1658
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:17,280
can we account for there being some

1659
01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:20,400
other explanation for ufos uh again the

1660
01:01:24,950 --> 01:01:22,559
hard-line skeptical stance is generally

1661
01:01:26,549 --> 01:01:24,960
today that um well these are all

1662
01:01:27,829 --> 01:01:26,559
misidentifications

1663
01:01:29,510 --> 01:01:27,839
these are people who may suffer from

1664
01:01:31,750 --> 01:01:29,520
delusions and fantasies and let's be

1665
01:01:33,990 --> 01:01:31,760
fair alan hendry who worked for this uh

1666
01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:34,000
center for ufo studies under jay allen

1667
01:01:37,750 --> 01:01:35,520
heineken wrote a fabulous book back in

1668
01:01:39,109 --> 01:01:37,760
the late 70s called the ufo handbook he

1669
01:01:40,630 --> 01:01:39,119
very fairly explored all those

1670
01:01:43,270 --> 01:01:40,640
possibilities too yes there are

1671
01:01:45,190 --> 01:01:43,280
confabulations delusions fantasies and

1672
01:01:47,589 --> 01:01:45,200
things like this misidentifications and

1673
01:01:48,789 --> 01:01:47,599
certain natural phenomena gene i've got

1674
01:01:50,950 --> 01:01:48,799
an interesting update about the brown

1675
01:01:52,069 --> 01:01:50,960
mountain lights here in a second but uh

1676
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:52,079
but you know again when we look at all

1677
01:01:56,630 --> 01:01:54,160
these different possible variables what

1678
01:01:59,270 --> 01:01:56,640
we have to accept at some point is what

1679
01:02:01,190 --> 01:01:59,280
is most likely uh which again coming

1680
01:02:03,030 --> 01:02:01,200
back to what randall's kind of driven

1681
01:02:05,190 --> 01:02:03,040
throughout the uh discussion that it

1682
01:02:06,630 --> 01:02:05,200
seems that there is some technology that

1683
01:02:09,589 --> 01:02:06,640
doesn't seem to be accountable easily

1684
01:02:12,390 --> 01:02:09,599
with earthly known technologies

1685
01:02:14,549 --> 01:02:12,400
and yet which also seems to be present

1686
01:02:16,549 --> 01:02:14,559
enough that we can account for the

1687
01:02:18,230 --> 01:02:16,559
existence of something very physical

1688
01:02:20,309 --> 01:02:18,240
intangible here on earth that is

1689
01:02:22,950 --> 01:02:20,319
observed but that is advanced enough

1690
01:02:24,789 --> 01:02:22,960
that it is also difficult to observe and

1691
01:02:26,230 --> 01:02:24,799
thereby explain so

1692
01:02:27,430 --> 01:02:26,240
it's really interesting when we kind of

1693
01:02:29,349 --> 01:02:27,440
circle around and look at all these

1694
01:02:31,910 --> 01:02:29,359
different hypotheticals because while

1695
01:02:33,270 --> 01:02:31,920
each may still have some validity we do

1696
01:02:34,789 --> 01:02:33,280
begin to see that there are certain

1697
01:02:36,309 --> 01:02:34,799
trends that emerge in terms of what is

1698
01:02:37,670 --> 01:02:36,319
most likely

1699
01:02:39,109 --> 01:02:37,680
i guess again i'm comfortable with

1700
01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:39,119
saying that there is seemingly something

1701
01:02:44,390 --> 01:02:41,760
very exotic about the ufo phenomena and

1702
01:02:45,990 --> 01:02:44,400
whatever that is remains extremely

1703
01:02:47,670 --> 01:02:46,000
extremely

1704
01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:47,680
strange to me and i think that's what

1705
01:02:51,990 --> 01:02:50,400
keeps us all so interested in this

1706
01:02:53,190 --> 01:02:52,000
i want to hear about this brown mountain

1707
01:02:54,789 --> 01:02:53,200
light update

1708
01:02:56,789 --> 01:02:54,799
let me yeah okay this is interesting

1709
01:02:58,069 --> 01:02:56,799
gene okay yeah let's be brief about this

1710
01:02:59,910 --> 01:02:58,079
we're going to have to break in a moment

1711
01:03:01,589 --> 01:02:59,920
i want to tell everybody about our

1712
01:03:03,510 --> 01:03:01,599
second radio show called after the

1713
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plus go to

1715
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you can then here after the powercast

1716
01:03:16,870 --> 01:03:13,920
which is

1717
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i don't know how we'd call this anything

1718
01:03:21,430 --> 01:03:18,480
but

1719
01:03:23,109 --> 01:03:21,440
a catch's catch can type of program

1720
01:03:25,829 --> 01:03:23,119
because we have just independent

1721
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:25,839
discussions continuations of this show

1722
01:03:30,470 --> 01:03:28,000
and sometimes we just do stuff

1723
01:03:31,990 --> 01:03:30,480
that's really off the wall you never

1724
01:03:33,910 --> 01:03:32,000
know we also have the commercial free

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plus.powercast.com

1730
01:03:45,829 --> 01:03:43,920
micah hank's going to tell us about

1731
01:03:48,789 --> 01:03:45,839
brown mountain lights and i'll tell you

1732
01:03:52,230 --> 01:03:48,799
about my experiences first we have sue

1733
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we have randall ufology you're in the

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1754
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discovering how cells breathe he also

1755
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discovered how normal cells turned into

1756
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tumor cells he discovered the one prime

1757
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cause of cancer was cellular oxygen

1758
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deficiency dr joanna budwig built upon

1759
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the work of dr warburg and discovered

1760
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how to feed the cells to overcome this

1761
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oxygen deficiency she found that it was

1762
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a sulfur in the cottage cheese that

1763
01:05:20,309 --> 01:05:19,200
would mix with fresh pressed flax oil

1764
01:05:22,470 --> 01:05:20,319
that the flax soil would become

1765
01:05:23,990 --> 01:05:22,480
emulsified and more readily absorbed

1766
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black soil delivered in this manner was

1767
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able to restore oxygen transfer to all

1768
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1770
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1798
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1799
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1800
01:06:39,990 --> 01:06:38,240
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1801
01:06:42,390 --> 01:06:40,000
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1806
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1807
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1825
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1827
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1828
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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1837
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comment or question about the paracast

1838
01:08:12,309 --> 01:08:09,119
send it to news at theparecast.com

1839
01:08:14,150 --> 01:08:12,319
that's news at the paracast.com

1840
01:08:16,630 --> 01:08:14,160
and don't forget to visit our famous

1841
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paracast community forums at

1842
01:08:23,669 --> 01:08:22,950
so so far sue has been the only one who

1843
01:08:25,510 --> 01:08:23,679
has

1844
01:08:28,229 --> 01:08:25,520
tried to be

1845
01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:28,239
inventive about it okay brown mountain

1846
01:08:31,910 --> 01:08:29,440
lights now

1847
01:08:34,149 --> 01:08:31,920
i went to look at that quite a bit of

1848
01:08:37,149 --> 01:08:34,159
time ago i went to look at the brown

1849
01:08:39,910 --> 01:08:37,159
mountain lights back in i think around

1850
01:08:41,269 --> 01:08:39,920
1969 or 1970

1851
01:08:43,510 --> 01:08:41,279
and i saw

1852
01:08:45,590 --> 01:08:43,520
nothing whatever tell us about the

1853
01:08:47,189 --> 01:08:45,600
update micah well you know i've long

1854
01:08:49,749 --> 01:08:47,199
studied the brown mountain lions they

1855
01:08:52,390 --> 01:08:49,759
are a purported illuminative phenomena

1856
01:08:54,789 --> 01:08:52,400
most likely of natural origin that

1857
01:08:56,309 --> 01:08:54,799
exists in actually just outside what's

1858
01:08:58,149 --> 01:08:56,319
called the linville gorge which is a

1859
01:09:00,149 --> 01:08:58,159
protected wilderness area

1860
01:09:01,829 --> 01:09:00,159
here on the eastern coast we we call

1861
01:09:03,269 --> 01:09:01,839
things gorgeous whereas out west it

1862
01:09:04,870 --> 01:09:03,279
would be a canyon but generally it's the

1863
01:09:06,950 --> 01:09:04,880
same sort of thing slightly different

1864
01:09:09,269 --> 01:09:06,960
geological features based on the the

1865
01:09:11,269 --> 01:09:09,279
location and so the linville gorge

1866
01:09:12,709 --> 01:09:11,279
actually is a great big gorge or canyon

1867
01:09:14,630 --> 01:09:12,719
and it's a beautiful spot you can go up

1868
01:09:16,070 --> 01:09:14,640
to what's called wiseman's view and it's

1869
01:09:18,309 --> 01:09:16,080
named after scotty wiseman and his

1870
01:09:19,910 --> 01:09:18,319
family he wrote a famous song that

1871
01:09:21,189 --> 01:09:19,920
bluegrass singers to this day still seem

1872
01:09:23,430 --> 01:09:21,199
called the legend of the brown mountain

1873
01:09:25,430 --> 01:09:23,440
light i have performed it myself with my

1874
01:09:26,950 --> 01:09:25,440
group and it's long been said that you

1875
01:09:28,950 --> 01:09:26,960
can go to wiseman's view or other

1876
01:09:30,229 --> 01:09:28,960
lookouts in the area and you can look

1877
01:09:31,910 --> 01:09:30,239
off into the distance and you'll see

1878
01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:31,920
lights sometimes that appear on the side

1879
01:09:36,550 --> 01:09:34,560
of brown mountain now i want to be very

1880
01:09:38,229 --> 01:09:36,560
clear that they don't just appear as

1881
01:09:39,669 --> 01:09:38,239
ground-based illuminations some of these

1882
01:09:41,189 --> 01:09:39,679
apparently rise into the sky just as

1883
01:09:42,950 --> 01:09:41,199
well and we'll get to that in a moment

1884
01:09:44,390 --> 01:09:42,960
but um as a researcher into this

1885
01:09:46,390 --> 01:09:44,400
phenomena i've got a lot of friends who

1886
01:09:48,070 --> 01:09:46,400
are really really steeped in belief and

1887
01:09:49,669 --> 01:09:48,080
think that there's a ufo base under the

1888
01:09:51,189 --> 01:09:49,679
mountain i've got friends who are very

1889
01:09:52,709 --> 01:09:51,199
skeptical and say it's all blue ghost

1890
01:09:53,990 --> 01:09:52,719
fireflies that people are seeing and

1891
01:09:55,350 --> 01:09:54,000
mistaking for being a light in the

1892
01:09:56,790 --> 01:09:55,360
distance and then there are the

1893
01:09:58,310 --> 01:09:56,800
scientists who are a little more

1894
01:10:00,310 --> 01:09:58,320
open-minded about things and i've spent

1895
01:10:01,430 --> 01:10:00,320
a lot of time with some of these guys my

1896
01:10:03,750 --> 01:10:01,440
good friends formerly of bell

1897
01:10:04,790 --> 01:10:03,760
laboratories uh bob ashmore and bill fox

1898
01:10:07,030 --> 01:10:04,800
come down about every year from

1899
01:10:08,790 --> 01:10:07,040
pennsylvania we'll spend time up there

1900
01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:08,800
at the weizmann's view

1901
01:10:12,790 --> 01:10:11,120
observing i'm like gene i've seen very

1902
01:10:14,470 --> 01:10:12,800
little there have been a couple of rare

1903
01:10:15,910 --> 01:10:14,480
exceptions to that bill and bob have

1904
01:10:17,350 --> 01:10:15,920
managed to photograph some interesting

1905
01:10:18,470 --> 01:10:17,360
things that even my more skeptical

1906
01:10:19,590 --> 01:10:18,480
friends in the science community have

1907
01:10:21,430 --> 01:10:19,600
said we don't know what it is but i'm

1908
01:10:23,110 --> 01:10:21,440
sure eventually we will and what it all

1909
01:10:25,590 --> 01:10:23,120
seems to point to is that there are

1910
01:10:27,189 --> 01:10:25,600
illuminative phenomena that occur

1911
01:10:29,669 --> 01:10:27,199
there around the linville gorge and also

1912
01:10:31,430 --> 01:10:29,679
of course on the adjacent brown mountain

1913
01:10:33,189 --> 01:10:31,440
ridge which is popularly associated with

1914
01:10:34,870 --> 01:10:33,199
this phenomena but in addition to the

1915
01:10:37,270 --> 01:10:34,880
field work i'm interested in the

1916
01:10:38,950 --> 01:10:37,280
historical work as well and a lot of us

1917
01:10:40,550 --> 01:10:38,960
here in this region namely my good

1918
01:10:42,470 --> 01:10:40,560
friend ed speer who's a retired

1919
01:10:44,550 --> 01:10:42,480
geologist he's one of my skeptic friends

1920
01:10:46,550 --> 01:10:44,560
who does a lot of this research daniel

1921
01:10:48,390 --> 01:10:46,560
kayton who is a physicist at app state

1922
01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:48,400
university we've been involved both with

1923
01:10:52,390 --> 01:10:49,840
field research and also historical

1924
01:10:53,590 --> 01:10:52,400
research and recently a funny thing

1925
01:10:55,350 --> 01:10:53,600
happened as a matter of fact just

1926
01:10:58,550 --> 01:10:55,360
yesterday when it comes to digging

1927
01:11:00,390 --> 01:10:58,560
through archives microfilm data books

1928
01:11:01,750 --> 01:11:00,400
we've tried to find references to the

1929
01:11:03,990 --> 01:11:01,760
brown mountain lights and things like

1930
01:11:05,189 --> 01:11:04,000
travel logs and things that that seem to

1931
01:11:06,709 --> 01:11:05,199
indicate that there was a phenomena

1932
01:11:08,470 --> 01:11:06,719
before the 20th century and really

1933
01:11:10,630 --> 01:11:08,480
there's very little information that

1934
01:11:13,189 --> 01:11:10,640
does suggest that although there was a

1935
01:11:15,669 --> 01:11:13,199
u.s geological survey expedition that

1936
01:11:17,750 --> 01:11:15,679
was conducted and george r mansfield had

1937
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:17,760
been the scientist sent down by the usgs

1938
01:11:21,110 --> 01:11:19,760
uh who back in the 1920s did collect

1939
01:11:22,790 --> 01:11:21,120
reports that said people had said that

1940
01:11:25,510 --> 01:11:22,800
they'd seen the lights as early as the

1941
01:11:27,910 --> 01:11:25,520
1860s but that also coincided with the

1942
01:11:29,750 --> 01:11:27,920
appearance of railroads and and trains

1943
01:11:30,870 --> 01:11:29,760
in the region and so his determination

1944
01:11:32,709 --> 01:11:30,880
at the time was that these were the

1945
01:11:33,830 --> 01:11:32,719
oncoming lights of local motives people

1946
01:11:35,510 --> 01:11:33,840
were seeing

1947
01:11:37,110 --> 01:11:35,520
if we really do have objects that go

1948
01:11:38,790 --> 01:11:37,120
into the sky there are a couple of

1949
01:11:40,550 --> 01:11:38,800
interesting points that might be made

1950
01:11:42,070 --> 01:11:40,560
one of them being that if mansfield had

1951
01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:42,080
been looking for a terrestrial source of

1952
01:11:44,950 --> 01:11:44,159
the eliminations he and others over the

1953
01:11:46,790 --> 01:11:44,960
years

1954
01:11:48,709 --> 01:11:46,800
might not have been considering looking

1955
01:11:50,470 --> 01:11:48,719
up and there certainly is data that

1956
01:11:52,709 --> 01:11:50,480
suggests that these eliminations both

1957
01:11:54,950 --> 01:11:52,719
appear on the ground in the distance and

1958
01:11:56,870 --> 01:11:54,960
sometimes rise into the sky as well i've

1959
01:11:58,470 --> 01:11:56,880
found a lot of interesting old photos

1960
01:12:00,709 --> 01:11:58,480
over the years of people who have

1961
01:12:02,790 --> 01:12:00,719
photographed the lights both as

1962
01:12:04,550 --> 01:12:02,800
ground-based illuminations and also in

1963
01:12:06,709 --> 01:12:04,560
one notable instance that comes to mind

1964
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:06,719
appear to be hovering over a ridgeline

1965
01:12:10,070 --> 01:12:08,560
the photo that comes to mind initially

1966
01:12:11,430 --> 01:12:10,080
is that uh that was taken by bruce

1967
01:12:14,229 --> 01:12:11,440
roberts and appeared in one of nancy

1968
01:12:16,310 --> 01:12:14,239
roberts books on ghosts in the carolinas

1969
01:12:17,669 --> 01:12:16,320
from back in the 1950s her husband had

1970
01:12:19,189 --> 01:12:17,679
taken a photo of the lights and they do

1971
01:12:21,350 --> 01:12:19,199
appear to be hovering over the ridge

1972
01:12:22,790 --> 01:12:21,360
line i found a new photo that i'd never

1973
01:12:25,030 --> 01:12:22,800
seen i'm sure someone has seen this

1974
01:12:26,950 --> 01:12:25,040
eventually but i just found it yesterday

1975
01:12:29,750 --> 01:12:26,960
my grandfather died earlier this year on

1976
01:12:31,110 --> 01:12:29,760
his 101st birthday and he often told me

1977
01:12:32,310 --> 01:12:31,120
he'd listened to late night radio and

1978
01:12:33,910 --> 01:12:32,320
things and had a little bit of an

1979
01:12:36,070 --> 01:12:33,920
interest in the unexplained but i would

1980
01:12:37,910 --> 01:12:36,080
always ask him being a world war ii

1981
01:12:39,110 --> 01:12:37,920
historian what do you think about the

1982
01:12:40,630 --> 01:12:39,120
ghost rockets what do you think about

1983
01:12:42,390 --> 01:12:40,640
foo fighters he'd say very little about

1984
01:12:43,910 --> 01:12:42,400
those kind of things and to my knowledge

1985
01:12:45,270 --> 01:12:43,920
he didn't own any kind of literature

1986
01:12:47,990 --> 01:12:45,280
about strange

1987
01:12:49,669 --> 01:12:48,000
happenings lo and behold we were at

1988
01:12:51,430 --> 01:12:49,679
his house yesterday my mother and my

1989
01:12:52,550 --> 01:12:51,440
aunt my father and i and they had asked

1990
01:12:54,470 --> 01:12:52,560
me to come over and go through some of

1991
01:12:56,550 --> 01:12:54,480
his old books and he has a trove of

1992
01:12:58,709 --> 01:12:56,560
books about world war ii and there was a

1993
01:13:01,189 --> 01:12:58,719
little box that my mother and my my uh

1994
01:13:02,550 --> 01:13:01,199
aunt found and they began going through

1995
01:13:03,669 --> 01:13:02,560
uh the box and seeing what was in there

1996
01:13:05,590 --> 01:13:03,679
and there were a bunch of all newspaper

1997
01:13:07,430 --> 01:13:05,600
clippings and things that were folded up

1998
01:13:08,709 --> 01:13:07,440
and here i have in my hands one of the

1999
01:13:11,110 --> 01:13:08,719
newspapers

2000
01:13:14,470 --> 01:13:11,120
that he had kept and this was from

2001
01:13:15,910 --> 01:13:14,480
sunday july 29 1962 i actually have the

2002
01:13:18,390 --> 01:13:15,920
the actual paper here the asheville

2003
01:13:21,510 --> 01:13:18,400
citizen times this was the front page

2004
01:13:23,110 --> 01:13:21,520
story on that sunday edition in 1962

2005
01:13:24,550 --> 01:13:23,120
brown mountain lights remain a mystery

2006
01:13:26,470 --> 01:13:24,560
to viewers and there's a beautiful

2007
01:13:27,990 --> 01:13:26,480
photograph taken by the author jim

2008
01:13:30,229 --> 01:13:28,000
beatty he was a correspondent for the

2009
01:13:32,149 --> 01:13:30,239
paper at the time and it shows a number

2010
01:13:34,149 --> 01:13:32,159
of lights on the ridge line of brown

2011
01:13:35,910 --> 01:13:34,159
mountain and down in the valley and in

2012
01:13:37,750 --> 01:13:35,920
the distance further beyond you also see

2013
01:13:39,270 --> 01:13:37,760
lightning striking it may not be the

2014
01:13:40,709 --> 01:13:39,280
most remarkable photo of something

2015
01:13:42,790 --> 01:13:40,719
alleged to be the brown mountain lights

2016
01:13:44,790 --> 01:13:42,800
but it was front page news in 1962 and

2017
01:13:46,709 --> 01:13:44,800
i'd never seen this photo before and

2018
01:13:47,830 --> 01:13:46,719
what's interesting about it is that many

2019
01:13:49,830 --> 01:13:47,840
theorize that we're dealing with

2020
01:13:51,189 --> 01:13:49,840
something akin to ball lightning

2021
01:13:53,030 --> 01:13:51,199
happening there at brown mountain and

2022
01:13:55,110 --> 01:13:53,040
sure enough this photo seems to have

2023
01:13:56,470 --> 01:13:55,120
been taken during a thunderstorm and you

2024
01:13:58,229 --> 01:13:56,480
can see the lightning striking there in

2025
01:13:59,590 --> 01:13:58,239
the distance so it's kind of interesting

2026
01:14:01,430 --> 01:13:59,600
that after all these years things

2027
01:14:03,270 --> 01:14:01,440
continue to turn up from time to time we

2028
01:14:04,870 --> 01:14:03,280
do find little little bits of

2029
01:14:06,390 --> 01:14:04,880
information that might still be useful

2030
01:14:07,669 --> 01:14:06,400
in the furthering of our understanding

2031
01:14:09,910 --> 01:14:07,679
of what's happening down there at brown

2032
01:14:12,790 --> 01:14:09,920
mountain well thanks for that mike and

2033
01:14:16,070 --> 01:14:12,800
uh condolences on your grandfather fanta

2034
01:14:18,550 --> 01:14:16,080
over 100 years old that's amazing 101

2035
01:14:21,189 --> 01:14:18,560
yeah another quick anecdote when sputnik

2036
01:14:23,830 --> 01:14:21,199
one was launched by the russians in 1957

2037
01:14:25,990 --> 01:14:23,840
he and my uncle had sat outside and and

2038
01:14:27,910 --> 01:14:26,000
observed as it passed over through a

2039
01:14:29,430 --> 01:14:27,920
telescope he had also taken a photograph

2040
01:14:31,350 --> 01:14:29,440
that he wanted me to look at now i

2041
01:14:32,870 --> 01:14:31,360
haven't found this photo it must still

2042
01:14:35,110 --> 01:14:32,880
be in his record someplace but he said i

2043
01:14:36,709 --> 01:14:35,120
took a photo of some very odd contrails

2044
01:14:38,630 --> 01:14:36,719
one day which he kind of alluded to

2045
01:14:40,149 --> 01:14:38,640
having been chemtrails he wanted me to

2046
01:14:42,390 --> 01:14:40,159
have this photo and i haven't uncovered

2047
01:14:44,470 --> 01:14:42,400
that yet in his archives so i hope to be

2048
01:14:47,110 --> 01:14:44,480
able to maybe find that because he was a

2049
01:14:48,550 --> 01:14:47,120
fascinating person and as has come to my

2050
01:14:50,390 --> 01:14:48,560
attention apparently he paid a little

2051
01:14:52,390 --> 01:14:50,400
bit more interest to unusual things than

2052
01:14:54,149 --> 01:14:52,400
i realized you know that wasn't the only

2053
01:14:55,430 --> 01:14:54,159
newspaper dealing with strange phenomena

2054
01:14:56,709 --> 01:14:55,440
that he had kept he'd kept another

2055
01:14:58,550 --> 01:14:56,719
newspaper that talked about fairy

2056
01:15:00,709 --> 01:14:58,560
circles found here in asheville there

2057
01:15:01,669 --> 01:15:00,719
was one written by an author named john

2058
01:15:03,110 --> 01:15:01,679
paris

2059
01:15:04,390 --> 01:15:03,120
that was talking about strange

2060
01:15:05,990 --> 01:15:04,400
happenings

2061
01:15:08,550 --> 01:15:06,000
as it related to a religious group here

2062
01:15:10,550 --> 01:15:08,560
in the area so he had apparently kept

2063
01:15:11,590 --> 01:15:10,560
rather quietly an interest over the

2064
01:15:13,270 --> 01:15:11,600
years in a variety of different

2065
01:15:14,709 --> 01:15:13,280
unexplained things and it just it's very

2066
01:15:16,709 --> 01:15:14,719
funny for me because the more i learn

2067
01:15:18,149 --> 01:15:16,719
about my family members in the past the

2068
01:15:19,350 --> 01:15:18,159
more i find that there's been a long

2069
01:15:21,270 --> 01:15:19,360
tradition whether or not they were very

2070
01:15:22,950 --> 01:15:21,280
vocal about it of people in my family

2071
01:15:25,110 --> 01:15:22,960
who've had these kind of interests well

2072
01:15:27,189 --> 01:15:25,120
that's really true if you actually start

2073
01:15:29,110 --> 01:15:27,199
asking around in your family if you've

2074
01:15:31,590 --> 01:15:29,120
never done it before or even your circle

2075
01:15:32,870 --> 01:15:31,600
of friends what i've found because i'm

2076
01:15:35,590 --> 01:15:32,880
not afraid to

2077
01:15:38,310 --> 01:15:35,600
is that everybody's family or circle of

2078
01:15:40,790 --> 01:15:38,320
friends has a few people in it who have

2079
01:15:42,709 --> 01:15:40,800
had some sort of weird experience and

2080
01:15:44,709 --> 01:15:42,719
they might not talk about it but if once

2081
01:15:46,950 --> 01:15:44,719
you get them talking about it it can be

2082
01:15:47,910 --> 01:15:46,960
really interesting absolutely my uncle

2083
01:15:50,550 --> 01:15:47,920
for instance would have been my

2084
01:15:52,950 --> 01:15:50,560
grandfather's son eldest child my uncle

2085
01:15:54,470 --> 01:15:52,960
had worked back probably the early 70s

2086
01:15:56,550 --> 01:15:54,480
or maybe the late 60s right after he

2087
01:16:00,229 --> 01:15:56,560
graduated from college he had worked for

2088
01:16:02,070 --> 01:16:00,239
a manufacturer of jet components and he

2089
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:02,080
had said that one evening he got a phone

2090
01:16:05,750 --> 01:16:03,920
call from some of his co-workers and it

2091
01:16:07,430 --> 01:16:05,760
was good commute to where he had to work

2092
01:16:09,430 --> 01:16:07,440
tomorrow he was about 45 minutes away

2093
01:16:10,550 --> 01:16:09,440
from his workplace but they called and

2094
01:16:12,709 --> 01:16:10,560
asked bill would you be interested in

2095
01:16:13,990 --> 01:16:12,719
coming out here there's something that

2096
01:16:15,590 --> 01:16:14,000
we've seen that's hovering over the

2097
01:16:17,590 --> 01:16:15,600
downrange where they would test the jet

2098
01:16:18,870 --> 01:16:17,600
aircraft engines i asked him about this

2099
01:16:20,229 --> 01:16:18,880
recently and he said yeah that's true

2100
01:16:21,270 --> 01:16:20,239
there were a number of workers one night

2101
01:16:22,709 --> 01:16:21,280
who were out there and they said some

2102
01:16:24,390 --> 01:16:22,719
dark object

2103
01:16:25,750 --> 01:16:24,400
came hovering we they never got a good

2104
01:16:27,189 --> 01:16:25,760
look at what it was because it was dark

2105
01:16:28,709 --> 01:16:27,199
outside and it wasn't lit but there was

2106
01:16:30,070 --> 01:16:28,719
clearly a large

2107
01:16:32,550 --> 01:16:30,080
aircraft of some kind that came and

2108
01:16:33,750 --> 01:16:32,560
hovered over the downrange as they were

2109
01:16:35,110 --> 01:16:33,760
you know keeping an eye on what they

2110
01:16:37,830 --> 01:16:35,120
were doing with the engine tests and

2111
01:16:40,149 --> 01:16:37,840
whatnot talk about a weird story

2112
01:16:48,229 --> 01:16:40,159
we got more to come with micah hanks sue

2113
01:16:48,239 --> 01:16:52,950
thank you for listening to gcn

2114
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:53,870
visit

2115
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gcnlive.com today

2116
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2119
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evidence has emerged showing serious

2120
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2121
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emf radiation emitted from these devices

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2161
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2169
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2170
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2171
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tired of commuting to a job that makes

2172
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2173
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2180
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2187
01:19:40,149 --> 01:19:37,679
as soon as next week you get to be the

2188
01:19:43,030 --> 01:19:40,159
boss get out of the rat race work from

2189
01:19:45,590 --> 01:19:43,040
home go to freedom106.com

2190
01:19:48,950 --> 01:19:45,600
right now and change your life today

2191
01:19:52,550 --> 01:19:50,189
go to

2192
01:19:55,510 --> 01:19:52,560
freedom106.com and start earning money

2193
01:19:59,030 --> 01:19:55,520
as soon as next week you be the boss go

2194
01:20:03,430 --> 01:20:01,350
hello congratulations for what we're

2195
01:20:06,630 --> 01:20:03,440
losing all that weight how'd you do it

2196
01:20:08,310 --> 01:20:06,640
so fast asap asa what what's that mean

2197
01:20:10,470 --> 01:20:08,320
are you ready to get as skinny as

2198
01:20:12,870 --> 01:20:10,480
possible as soon as possible as simple

2199
01:20:15,270 --> 01:20:12,880
as possible and as sexy as possible i'm

2200
01:20:17,990 --> 01:20:15,280
listening and get with the asap program

2201
01:20:20,390 --> 01:20:18,000
it's real and it works no smooth talk no

2202
01:20:22,630 --> 01:20:20,400
slick advertising and no exaggerated

2203
01:20:25,750 --> 01:20:22,640
claims of success i've gotta know more

2204
01:20:28,070 --> 01:20:25,760
welcome to asap as slim as possible

2205
01:20:30,709 --> 01:20:28,080
whether you have 10 20 or 50 pounds to

2206
01:20:33,270 --> 01:20:30,719
lose asap is your weight loss answer

2207
01:20:34,950 --> 01:20:33,280
asap targets the abnormal fat reserves

2208
01:20:36,790 --> 01:20:34,960
and makes them available to be burned as

2209
01:20:39,669 --> 01:20:36,800
fuel and contains no caffeine or

2210
01:20:41,350 --> 01:20:39,679
hormones order asap at wholesale prices

2211
01:20:42,990 --> 01:20:41,360
or join the team to share the business

2212
01:20:48,430 --> 01:20:43,000
with others visit

2213
01:20:48,440 --> 01:20:53,350
gcnteam.com or call 877-878-4203

2214
01:21:04,229 --> 01:20:56,229
lose weight and look great with asap as

2215
01:21:09,350 --> 01:21:06,790
hey this is marie d jones the author of

2216
01:21:11,990 --> 01:21:09,360
this book is from the future

2217
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:12,000
and you are listening to the paracast

2218
01:21:17,970 --> 01:21:22,630
[Music]

2219
01:21:26,870 --> 01:21:25,189
a listener round table with micah hanks

2220
01:21:29,990 --> 01:21:26,880
is our guest co-host

2221
01:21:32,310 --> 01:21:30,000
chris o'brien is on special assignment

2222
01:21:33,990 --> 01:21:32,320
we have sue we have randall they also

2223
01:21:34,950 --> 01:21:34,000
joined us on our last listener round

2224
01:21:36,630 --> 01:21:34,960
table

2225
01:21:38,310 --> 01:21:36,640
and we've been getting into a lot of

2226
01:21:41,030 --> 01:21:38,320
interesting discussions breakaway

2227
01:21:44,149 --> 01:21:41,040
civilizations ufo disclosure

2228
01:21:46,550 --> 01:21:44,159
and indeed the brown mountain lights

2229
01:21:47,510 --> 01:21:46,560
i remember we talked to this fellow

2230
01:21:49,590 --> 01:21:47,520
ralph

2231
01:21:52,629 --> 01:21:49,600
lail at the time

2232
01:21:55,270 --> 01:21:52,639
and did you ever meet him micah uh no

2233
01:21:56,790 --> 01:21:55,280
that was before my time i do know of him

2234
01:21:58,709 --> 01:21:56,800
um you know before we get into that

2235
01:22:00,310 --> 01:21:58,719
discussion though sue i know that you

2236
01:22:02,070 --> 01:22:00,320
had a point you were making why don't we

2237
01:22:03,590 --> 01:22:02,080
come back to you and then we could talk

2238
01:22:04,950 --> 01:22:03,600
a little bit about ralph if you want to

2239
01:22:07,189 --> 01:22:04,960
a little later i do have a funny story

2240
01:22:09,030 --> 01:22:07,199
about that yeah i was just gonna say

2241
01:22:11,270 --> 01:22:09,040
everyone seems to be walking around with

2242
01:22:13,910 --> 01:22:11,280
a story but they seem to be hesitant to

2243
01:22:15,910 --> 01:22:13,920
share them possibly for fear of ridicule

2244
01:22:18,310 --> 01:22:15,920
or just because opening up that kind of

2245
01:22:20,390 --> 01:22:18,320
discussion opens up the unknown as a

2246
01:22:22,390 --> 01:22:20,400
whole and that's a little scary

2247
01:22:24,790 --> 01:22:22,400
and i'm wondering

2248
01:22:27,510 --> 01:22:24,800
do people have any ideas about the best

2249
01:22:29,350 --> 01:22:27,520
ways to kind of get people to

2250
01:22:31,830 --> 01:22:29,360
uh share their stories to get them

2251
01:22:33,430 --> 01:22:31,840
willing to talk about that with you let

2252
01:22:35,189 --> 01:22:33,440
me begin by asking sue have you ever had

2253
01:22:38,470 --> 01:22:35,199
an experience yourself

2254
01:22:39,750 --> 01:22:38,480
oh yeah various sure over the years

2255
01:22:42,229 --> 01:22:39,760
would you would you be comfortable

2256
01:22:44,310 --> 01:22:42,239
giving an example of something

2257
01:22:46,550 --> 01:22:44,320
um no

2258
01:22:48,709 --> 01:22:46,560
see there we go all right yeah it

2259
01:22:50,790 --> 01:22:48,719
doesn't really seem relevant to other

2260
01:22:52,629 --> 01:22:50,800
people it was highly personal in nature

2261
01:22:54,229 --> 01:22:52,639
and i'm not sure that it makes a good

2262
01:22:55,590 --> 01:22:54,239
story story

2263
01:22:58,149 --> 01:22:55,600
i understand well you know that's the

2264
01:23:00,390 --> 01:22:58,159
thing about when i have experiences

2265
01:23:02,229 --> 01:23:00,400
they're typically and again i don't

2266
01:23:03,590 --> 01:23:02,239
consider myself a person who has psychic

2267
01:23:05,189 --> 01:23:03,600
abilities or anything like that i've

2268
01:23:07,510 --> 01:23:05,199
never seen what i could say oh my gosh

2269
01:23:09,910 --> 01:23:07,520
that was a full-blown

2270
01:23:11,350 --> 01:23:09,920
exotic aircraft of some kind a ufo by

2271
01:23:12,709 --> 01:23:11,360
definition

2272
01:23:14,709 --> 01:23:12,719
i haven't had those experiences but i

2273
01:23:16,709 --> 01:23:14,719
tell you what i've had a lot of

2274
01:23:18,310 --> 01:23:16,719
synchronicities and just to give you a

2275
01:23:20,709 --> 01:23:18,320
few examples i mean this is very

2276
01:23:23,030 --> 01:23:20,719
recently i had a dream that a band that

2277
01:23:24,310 --> 01:23:23,040
i used to help out as a guitarist a

2278
01:23:25,430 --> 01:23:24,320
number of years ago was getting back

2279
01:23:27,270 --> 01:23:25,440
together and they couldn't find their

2280
01:23:28,629 --> 01:23:27,280
singer the next day

2281
01:23:30,070 --> 01:23:28,639
the current bass player in my group

2282
01:23:32,149 --> 01:23:30,080
contacted me and said guess who called

2283
01:23:33,669 --> 01:23:32,159
me and wants to do some recording

2284
01:23:35,030 --> 01:23:33,679
the old group and he named the group and

2285
01:23:36,470 --> 01:23:35,040
he said but apparently they're doing it

2286
01:23:38,390 --> 01:23:36,480
this time and justin the singer isn't

2287
01:23:39,510 --> 01:23:38,400
coming back and i thought really and i

2288
01:23:40,629 --> 01:23:39,520
told him about the dream i'd had the

2289
01:23:42,550 --> 01:23:40,639
night before and he didn't really have

2290
01:23:44,470 --> 01:23:42,560
much to say about it so i think that

2291
01:23:45,990 --> 01:23:44,480
sometimes those peculiar little

2292
01:23:46,830 --> 01:23:46,000
coincidences meaningful though they are

2293
01:23:48,709 --> 01:23:46,840
to

2294
01:23:50,550 --> 01:23:48,719
individuals may not have that same

2295
01:23:51,590 --> 01:23:50,560
meaning to other people and that seems

2296
01:23:53,430 --> 01:23:51,600
to

2297
01:23:55,110 --> 01:23:53,440
be the general trend is that these are

2298
01:23:56,310 --> 01:23:55,120
excluded from general conversation

2299
01:23:57,910 --> 01:23:56,320
because those

2300
01:23:59,669 --> 01:23:57,920
i can tell about an experience like that

2301
01:24:01,110 --> 01:23:59,679
somebody might say well that means

2302
01:24:02,470 --> 01:24:01,120
little or nothing

2303
01:24:04,390 --> 01:24:02,480
or they assume that you're trying to

2304
01:24:05,910 --> 01:24:04,400
make some sort of a case for having some

2305
01:24:07,910 --> 01:24:05,920
strange psychic abilities another

2306
01:24:09,830 --> 01:24:07,920
example i was sitting here in my office

2307
01:24:11,590 --> 01:24:09,840
the other day i knew that my friend

2308
01:24:13,990 --> 01:24:11,600
lindsay was going to be coming into town

2309
01:24:14,950 --> 01:24:14,000
soon with her family i thought about the

2310
01:24:16,310 --> 01:24:14,960
fact that they were going to be coming

2311
01:24:18,149 --> 01:24:16,320
into town and i said she'll be

2312
01:24:19,910 --> 01:24:18,159
contacting me really soon to talk about

2313
01:24:21,830 --> 01:24:19,920
this and then my phone rang that instant

2314
01:24:23,590 --> 01:24:21,840
there it was she was calling

2315
01:24:24,950 --> 01:24:23,600
um a lot of people have talked about

2316
01:24:26,870 --> 01:24:24,960
that i know i'm about to hear from

2317
01:24:28,709 --> 01:24:26,880
somebody before the phone rings that's

2318
01:24:30,550 --> 01:24:28,719
probably the most stark and obvious

2319
01:24:32,629 --> 01:24:30,560
instance of that occurring that i've

2320
01:24:33,750 --> 01:24:32,639
experienced in a long time

2321
01:24:35,189 --> 01:24:33,760
and then there are other things that

2322
01:24:37,110 --> 01:24:35,199
have happened just as well i had a dream

2323
01:24:38,550 --> 01:24:37,120
the other night that i was playing a

2324
01:24:40,629 --> 01:24:38,560
show with a couple of musicians a

2325
01:24:42,709 --> 01:24:40,639
particular mandolin player and a fiddler

2326
01:24:44,149 --> 01:24:42,719
we do traditional mountain music here

2327
01:24:45,430 --> 01:24:44,159
but the next day i did not have a gig

2328
01:24:46,629 --> 01:24:45,440
scheduled but the mandolin player from

2329
01:24:48,950 --> 01:24:46,639
the dream the night before called and

2330
01:24:50,790 --> 01:24:48,960
said i realized i had a gig tonight i

2331
01:24:52,310 --> 01:24:50,800
didn't remember it they've called

2332
01:24:54,470 --> 01:24:52,320
wanting to where i am i don't have other

2333
01:24:55,830 --> 01:24:54,480
musicians can you come play and we were

2334
01:24:57,110 --> 01:24:55,840
sitting on stage together at the gig

2335
01:24:58,790 --> 01:24:57,120
later that night and i explained to him

2336
01:25:00,070 --> 01:24:58,800
i said and let's be really careful

2337
01:25:01,270 --> 01:25:00,080
because last night in the dream i had

2338
01:25:03,590 --> 01:25:01,280
were you and i were playing a show my

2339
01:25:05,350 --> 01:25:03,600
guitar neck got broken and he said uh

2340
01:25:06,790 --> 01:25:05,360
well what should we do and i said let's

2341
01:25:08,149 --> 01:25:06,800
hope my guitar neck doesn't get broken

2342
01:25:10,070 --> 01:25:08,159
and it didn't

2343
01:25:11,750 --> 01:25:10,080
but it was funny that you know that that

2344
01:25:14,310 --> 01:25:11,760
would happen and um

2345
01:25:16,629 --> 01:25:14,320
is it only meaningful to me

2346
01:25:17,990 --> 01:25:16,639
or is there legitimately a bizarre

2347
01:25:19,350 --> 01:25:18,000
coincidence occurring there that's

2348
01:25:20,629 --> 01:25:19,360
noteworthy what about you randall you

2349
01:25:23,270 --> 01:25:20,639
ever had an experience of something

2350
01:25:24,950 --> 01:25:23,280
strange along those lines oh yeah all

2351
01:25:27,110 --> 01:25:24,960
kinds of stuff like that

2352
01:25:29,189 --> 01:25:27,120
apart from ufos which

2353
01:25:32,149 --> 01:25:29,199
i i tend to think of as something a

2354
01:25:34,950 --> 01:25:32,159
little bit separate from paranormal

2355
01:25:36,950 --> 01:25:34,960
i've had ghost experiences and

2356
01:25:38,870 --> 01:25:36,960
similar types of dreams

2357
01:25:40,890 --> 01:25:38,880
as you although recently i'm i'm hoping

2358
01:25:42,709 --> 01:25:40,900
none of my dreams come true

2359
01:25:45,830 --> 01:25:42,719
[Music]

2360
01:25:49,189 --> 01:25:45,840
and uh yeah oh yeah definitely

2361
01:25:51,830 --> 01:25:49,199
mib and oh man the list goes on and

2362
01:25:53,669 --> 01:25:51,840
that's why i do believe

2363
01:25:55,990 --> 01:25:53,679
i can't be the only person in the world

2364
01:25:58,229 --> 01:25:56,000
who's experienced these things

2365
01:25:59,430 --> 01:25:58,239
if i've experienced them

2366
01:26:01,270 --> 01:25:59,440
other people

2367
01:26:02,629 --> 01:26:01,280
when they say they have it's just not

2368
01:26:05,030 --> 01:26:02,639
fair to say

2369
01:26:06,310 --> 01:26:05,040
no you haven't you that's all nonsense

2370
01:26:08,870 --> 01:26:06,320
i'm the only person who's ever

2371
01:26:11,110 --> 01:26:08,880
experienced these things so i do believe

2372
01:26:13,270 --> 01:26:11,120
that the phenomena is real i think it's

2373
01:26:14,950 --> 01:26:13,280
just really important how we interpret

2374
01:26:16,310 --> 01:26:14,960
it gene i'm interested though because

2375
01:26:17,750 --> 01:26:16,320
randall just said he had an mib

2376
01:26:19,510 --> 01:26:17,760
experience have you heard this story

2377
01:26:21,590 --> 01:26:19,520
gene you know what i think we're going

2378
01:26:23,910 --> 01:26:21,600
to have to pursue this more we might

2379
01:26:26,070 --> 01:26:23,920
have discussed it on one of our past

2380
01:26:27,189 --> 01:26:26,080
episodes but that's long ago and far

2381
01:26:29,990 --> 01:26:27,199
away and

2382
01:26:32,310 --> 01:26:30,000
we always have a lot of new listeners to

2383
01:26:34,070 --> 01:26:32,320
particular episodes so randall you've

2384
01:26:35,669 --> 01:26:34,080
been elected tell us

2385
01:26:36,870 --> 01:26:35,679
oh

2386
01:26:38,550 --> 01:26:36,880
man

2387
01:26:40,950 --> 01:26:38,560
well i've had

2388
01:26:43,510 --> 01:26:40,960
two basically that were

2389
01:26:45,669 --> 01:26:43,520
rather bizarre but the most bizarre one

2390
01:26:48,550 --> 01:26:45,679
i was working out in bc

2391
01:26:50,629 --> 01:26:48,560
in rogers pass i was a section four man

2392
01:26:52,310 --> 01:26:50,639
out there and it's a fairly lonely

2393
01:26:54,310 --> 01:26:52,320
stretch of highway

2394
01:26:57,590 --> 01:26:54,320
going from there to where my mom lived

2395
01:26:59,030 --> 01:26:57,600
in windermere which is a location where

2396
01:27:01,189 --> 01:26:59,040
a number of things happen in the rocky

2397
01:27:02,950 --> 01:27:01,199
mountain trench you can this this is a

2398
01:27:06,149 --> 01:27:02,960
geological feature you can actually see

2399
01:27:08,310 --> 01:27:06,159
from space and it's also where i saw the

2400
01:27:09,590 --> 01:27:08,320
ufo i saw when i was younger but i was

2401
01:27:11,830 --> 01:27:09,600
driving

2402
01:27:12,790 --> 01:27:11,840
to make a long story short to my mom's

2403
01:27:16,550 --> 01:27:12,800
place

2404
01:27:17,750 --> 01:27:16,560
and uh it was 1977

2405
01:27:24,629 --> 01:27:17,760
and

2406
01:27:26,070 --> 01:27:24,639
just driving along at night when all of

2407
01:27:29,270 --> 01:27:26,080
a sudden

2408
01:27:30,790 --> 01:27:29,280
i saw what looked like a car coming to

2409
01:27:33,830 --> 01:27:30,800
an intersection a

2410
01:27:36,629 --> 01:27:33,840
like a t intersection in front of me

2411
01:27:39,189 --> 01:27:36,639
and i thought well i hope it stops

2412
01:27:40,149 --> 01:27:39,199
but it didn't and so

2413
01:28:37,750 --> 01:27:40,159
i

2414
01:28:39,189 --> 01:28:37,760
through the trees and around the trees

2415
01:28:40,629 --> 01:28:39,199
and across the road and down into the

2416
01:28:42,790 --> 01:28:40,639
valley and that's

2417
01:28:45,830 --> 01:28:42,800
i was completely

2418
01:28:48,070 --> 01:28:45,840
dumbfounded i i didn't even know mib

2419
01:28:49,910 --> 01:28:48,080
existed at the time that was a part of

2420
01:28:52,870 --> 01:28:49,920
youthful lore i'd never run across at

2421
01:28:55,189 --> 01:28:52,880
the time and only discovered it

2422
01:28:57,030 --> 01:28:55,199
back in about the early 80s

2423
01:28:58,950 --> 01:28:57,040
so

2424
01:28:59,750 --> 01:28:58,960
that's a great story

2425
01:29:02,550 --> 01:28:59,760
yeah

2426
01:29:06,790 --> 01:29:05,110
i can still see the uh the looks on

2427
01:29:09,270 --> 01:29:06,800
their faces as

2428
01:29:10,950 --> 01:29:09,280
their vehicle went by me and they were

2429
01:29:13,189 --> 01:29:10,960
their heads were turning and looking

2430
01:29:15,510 --> 01:29:13,199
directly right into my windshield as if

2431
01:29:18,310 --> 01:29:15,520
they were looking right at me it was so

2432
01:29:25,030 --> 01:29:22,229
um gene have you heard my mrv story

2433
01:29:26,790 --> 01:29:25,040
i might have but being that we have lots

2434
01:29:29,030 --> 01:29:26,800
of listeners here let's bring it up

2435
01:29:30,629 --> 01:29:29,040
again we have about a minute left before

2436
01:29:32,550 --> 01:29:30,639
we have to break go ahead yeah we'll

2437
01:29:34,149 --> 01:29:32,560
keep it short i mean a long story short

2438
01:29:36,470 --> 01:29:34,159
was a person that emailed me a long time

2439
01:29:37,669 --> 01:29:36,480
ago and had said that they had had a ufo

2440
01:29:39,430 --> 01:29:37,679
experience where they saw one of these

2441
01:29:41,510 --> 01:29:39,440
large triangles and uh shortly

2442
01:29:42,709 --> 01:29:41,520
thereafter the same individual contacted

2443
01:29:45,350 --> 01:29:42,719
me and said i want to tell you about an

2444
01:29:47,750 --> 01:29:45,360
mib experience i had and he related that

2445
01:29:49,990 --> 01:29:47,760
late one night he had been

2446
01:29:52,310 --> 01:29:50,000
working as a delivery guy with a with a

2447
01:29:53,750 --> 01:29:52,320
a truck he was unloading the truck and

2448
01:29:55,270 --> 01:29:53,760
uh that uh there'd been a black vehicle

2449
01:29:57,030 --> 01:29:55,280
that parked in front of his truck and as

2450
01:29:59,189 --> 01:29:57,040
he was leaving he was confronted by a

2451
01:30:00,629 --> 01:29:59,199
classic mib that told him

2452
01:30:02,870 --> 01:30:00,639
you're to stop talking to micah hanks

2453
01:30:04,629 --> 01:30:02,880
about your ufo experiences

2454
01:30:06,390 --> 01:30:04,639
so you know it's interesting it never

2455
01:30:08,629 --> 01:30:06,400
happened to me but apparently if this

2456
01:30:10,470 --> 01:30:08,639
story is indeed a valid retelling of

2457
01:30:11,590 --> 01:30:10,480
events there must be an mib out there

2458
01:30:16,470 --> 01:30:11,600
that's pretty interested in what i'm

2459
01:30:21,830 --> 01:30:19,669
well that was short that was sweet and

2460
01:30:23,590 --> 01:30:21,840
we're having a special listener round

2461
01:30:25,669 --> 01:30:23,600
table with two of our

2462
01:30:27,790 --> 01:30:25,679
frequent posters

2463
01:30:29,030 --> 01:30:27,800
in forums at our

2464
01:30:31,110 --> 01:30:29,040
forum.thepowercast.com that's

2465
01:30:33,110 --> 01:30:31,120
forum.powercast.com

2466
01:30:35,270 --> 01:30:33,120
check it out and you can get involved in

2467
01:30:36,629 --> 01:30:35,280
the discussions with just lurk we have

2468
01:30:38,149 --> 01:30:36,639
randall

2469
01:30:40,310 --> 01:30:38,159
we have sue

2470
01:30:48,870 --> 01:30:40,320
we have micah hanks as guest co-host

2471
01:30:52,990 --> 01:30:52,070
thank you for listening to gcn

2472
01:30:57,350 --> 01:30:53,000
visit

2473
01:31:03,030 --> 01:30:59,750
we also have swag you know we have all

2474
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these exclusive power cast things that

2475
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you can buy we've got like i guess 60 or

2476
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so different items and entails t-shirts

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2478
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2479
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2480
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and stuff like that for men and women we

2481
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have a powercast aluminum water bottle

2482
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all this stuff you go to

2483
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store.thepowercast.com what makes

2484
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special is that the items are the best

2485
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quality of great t-shirts fabrics and

2486
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they have our official logo on them

2487
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that's what makes them special in

2488
01:31:44,470 --> 01:31:42,000
multiple sizes and colors we even have

2489
01:31:46,950 --> 01:31:44,480
stuff for children stuff for women stuff

2490
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for men we have all sorts of sizes like

2491
01:31:51,910 --> 01:31:49,600
small up to x large a lot of good stuff

2492
01:31:53,310 --> 01:31:51,920
that's the swag from the power cast you

2493
01:31:55,910 --> 01:31:53,320
go to

2494
01:31:57,430 --> 01:31:55,920
store.thepowercast.com stop by and take

2495
01:31:58,550 --> 01:31:57,440
a shopping tour paid non-attorney

2496
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spokesperson adam polaski of the

2497
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palestinian law firm with principal

2498
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office and used to texas the attorney

2499
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responsible for the content of this ad

2500
01:32:03,030 --> 01:32:02,239
this ad is not legal advice and the

2501
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choice of lawyers should not be based

2502
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only on advertisement services may not

2503
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be available in all states attention

2504
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zarato users if you or a loved one took

2505
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xarelto and suffered a serious bleeding

2506
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2507
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compensation xarelto is a popular

2508
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2509
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prevent blood clots and protect patients

2510
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from strokes these serious bleeding

2511
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2512
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2513
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lines are open 24 7. call

2514
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800-261-0937 that's

2515
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2516
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being watched like someone or some

2517
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company is tracking your every move

2518
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online i know i do that's why i trust

2519
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private internet access vpn to keep me

2520
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safe when i'm online i use it to encrypt

2521
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2522
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2523
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2524
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2525
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2526
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2528
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2529
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2530
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2532
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2533
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2534
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refreshing see the complete line of

2535
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propure products including the new pro

2536
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2537
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you visit your authorized pro-pure

2538
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2539
01:33:30,149 --> 01:33:26,440
that's

2540
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2541
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2542
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2543
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2544
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difficult it is to find senior care for

2545
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2546
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a free service called a place for mom

2547
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2548
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2549
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2550
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2551
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2552
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2553
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2554
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2555
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2556
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2557
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2558
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2559
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2561
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2562
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2563
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2564
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2565
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2567
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2568
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2569
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2570
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2571
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2572
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2573
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2574
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2575
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2576
01:34:59,820 --> 01:35:05,590
[Music]

2577
01:35:09,510 --> 01:35:07,350
hi this is bryce abel i'm the producer

2578
01:35:11,270 --> 01:35:09,520
of dark skies the co-author of ad after

2579
01:35:14,629 --> 01:35:11,280
disclosure and you are listening to the

2580
01:35:15,950 --> 01:35:14,639
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

2581
01:35:22,870 --> 01:35:15,960
radio

2582
01:35:25,430 --> 01:35:22,880
[Music]

2583
01:35:28,070 --> 01:35:25,440
okay we continue with micah hanks as our

2584
01:35:30,310 --> 01:35:28,080
guest co-host and we also have randall

2585
01:35:32,390 --> 01:35:30,320
we have sue it's one of those special

2586
01:35:34,070 --> 01:35:32,400
listener roundtable episodes where is

2587
01:35:35,750 --> 01:35:34,080
chris o'brien

2588
01:35:38,229 --> 01:35:35,760
well he's

2589
01:35:40,229 --> 01:35:38,239
off doing a special assignment

2590
01:35:41,189 --> 01:35:40,239
what special assignment

2591
01:35:42,390 --> 01:35:41,199
wow

2592
01:35:43,510 --> 01:35:42,400
earning

2593
01:35:44,390 --> 01:35:43,520
a living

2594
01:35:46,470 --> 01:35:44,400
as

2595
01:35:48,790 --> 01:35:46,480
one of the premier drivers

2596
01:35:51,110 --> 01:35:48,800
for those visiting the grand canyon

2597
01:35:52,470 --> 01:35:51,120
i will never go watch them do that you

2598
01:35:53,910 --> 01:35:52,480
know and the reason is because i don't

2599
01:35:55,270 --> 01:35:53,920
like heights

2600
01:35:57,030 --> 01:35:55,280
yeah me neither

2601
01:35:58,470 --> 01:35:57,040
but i'd love to go on one of his tours i

2602
01:36:00,149 --> 01:35:58,480
think i've heard he's

2603
01:36:01,110 --> 01:36:00,159
fantastic at it he really knows his

2604
01:36:02,870 --> 01:36:01,120
stuff

2605
01:36:04,390 --> 01:36:02,880
yeah you know any time spent in the

2606
01:36:05,590 --> 01:36:04,400
field with uh chris o'brien although

2607
01:36:08,149 --> 01:36:05,600
i've never really gone with him on a

2608
01:36:09,510 --> 01:36:08,159
tour i've visited with chris an awful

2609
01:36:11,590 --> 01:36:09,520
lot you know

2610
01:36:13,430 --> 01:36:11,600
funny thing by the way in 2013 i was

2611
01:36:15,830 --> 01:36:13,440
hanging out with with chris

2612
01:36:17,030 --> 01:36:15,840
at the international ufo congress gene

2613
01:36:19,189 --> 01:36:17,040
steinberg

2614
01:36:21,430 --> 01:36:19,199
i hear you were there and yet i don't

2615
01:36:23,590 --> 01:36:21,440
recall you and i ever meeting how did we

2616
01:36:26,709 --> 01:36:23,600
nearly meet and yet we didn't

2617
01:36:31,189 --> 01:36:29,189
you know i was over at an international

2618
01:36:34,229 --> 01:36:31,199
ufo conference and jacques fillet was

2619
01:36:35,590 --> 01:36:34,239
there the last one i saw him in the

2620
01:36:36,950 --> 01:36:35,600
distance

2621
01:36:39,750 --> 01:36:36,960
now i hadn't

2622
01:36:42,229 --> 01:36:39,760
met him since the 60s when

2623
01:36:43,350 --> 01:36:42,239
jim mosley and alan greenfield and some

2624
01:36:45,990 --> 01:36:43,360
other people

2625
01:36:47,189 --> 01:36:46,000
talked to him in a hotel in chicago he

2626
01:36:48,870 --> 01:36:47,199
knows me because he's been on the

2627
01:36:50,950 --> 01:36:48,880
paracast a few times

2628
01:36:52,470 --> 01:36:50,960
i really shouldn't have been so lazy i

2629
01:36:53,270 --> 01:36:52,480
should have just gotten up from the

2630
01:36:55,350 --> 01:36:53,280
chair

2631
01:36:56,709 --> 01:36:55,360
and talked to him but i didn't

2632
01:36:58,790 --> 01:36:56,719
few people were there that i would have

2633
01:37:02,310 --> 01:36:58,800
liked to have talked to chris rutkowski

2634
01:37:04,229 --> 01:37:02,320
was there and i didn't i spent time with

2635
01:37:07,590 --> 01:37:04,239
red pill junkie which was good and the

2636
01:37:08,709 --> 01:37:07,600
reason it was good is because he created

2637
01:37:11,750 --> 01:37:08,719
these

2638
01:37:13,669 --> 01:37:11,760
amazing caricatures of me and chris

2639
01:37:14,950 --> 01:37:13,679
which many of you have seen in fact i

2640
01:37:16,390 --> 01:37:14,960
got a letter the other day and i was

2641
01:37:17,830 --> 01:37:16,400
kind of surprised about it because they

2642
01:37:19,350 --> 01:37:17,840
said hey

2643
01:37:21,590 --> 01:37:19,360
why don't you offer

2644
01:37:22,950 --> 01:37:21,600
logo t-shirts featuring these new logos

2645
01:37:25,109 --> 01:37:22,960
and i said we already do we've been

2646
01:37:27,750 --> 01:37:25,119
advertising it on the show and i think

2647
01:37:29,510 --> 01:37:27,760
either this person is a subscriber to

2648
01:37:31,990 --> 01:37:29,520
the power cast plus and doesn't hear the

2649
01:37:32,629 --> 01:37:32,000
ads or didn't notice what's on the site

2650
01:37:35,270 --> 01:37:32,639
so if you got a store not the

2651
01:37:37,590 --> 01:37:35,280
store.theparacast.com

2652
01:37:39,510 --> 01:37:37,600
we have our swag

2653
01:37:41,750 --> 01:37:39,520
available we can get the logo t-shirts

2654
01:37:44,229 --> 01:37:41,760
featuring the new logo designed by red

2655
01:37:45,830 --> 01:37:44,239
pill junkie i guess if we sell enough of

2656
01:37:48,870 --> 01:37:45,840
them we'll give them a commission how's

2657
01:37:50,790 --> 01:37:48,880
that that's unfair to you guys yeah

2658
01:37:53,669 --> 01:37:50,800
he'll be on easy street

2659
01:37:55,669 --> 01:37:53,679
right sure they can plan his retirement

2660
01:37:57,990 --> 01:37:55,679
on that one well i have to plan mine

2661
01:37:59,590 --> 01:37:58,000
first because i'm past retirement age

2662
01:38:00,790 --> 01:37:59,600
you know it's been late

2663
01:38:03,830 --> 01:38:00,800
you know we're all making a million

2664
01:38:05,350 --> 01:38:03,840
bucks at this oh we are where's my check

2665
01:38:07,189 --> 01:38:05,360
wait a minute wait a minute i'm getting

2666
01:38:09,270 --> 01:38:07,199
cia payoffs

2667
01:38:10,310 --> 01:38:09,280
we used to joke about this folks you

2668
01:38:13,030 --> 01:38:10,320
know

2669
01:38:14,870 --> 01:38:13,040
whether any particular person who

2670
01:38:17,910 --> 01:38:14,880
participates in the forums at the

2671
01:38:19,350 --> 01:38:17,920
paracast at forum.powercast.com

2672
01:38:23,189 --> 01:38:19,360
whether we have

2673
01:38:26,149 --> 01:38:23,199
a cia presence one or more cia presences

2674
01:38:29,189 --> 01:38:26,159
one or more nsa presidencies

2675
01:38:31,510 --> 01:38:29,199
so none of you right randall or sue

2676
01:38:33,830 --> 01:38:31,520
randall you're a canadian so i don't

2677
01:38:35,910 --> 01:38:33,840
know how that'll work

2678
01:38:39,830 --> 01:38:35,920
my knowledge i'm neither liberty to

2679
01:38:42,470 --> 01:38:39,840
confirm nor deny that those rumors okay

2680
01:38:44,070 --> 01:38:42,480
what's something to say it sounds like

2681
01:38:45,430 --> 01:38:44,080
i'll give you a story here that i never

2682
01:38:46,390 --> 01:38:45,440
told on the show

2683
01:38:50,229 --> 01:38:46,400
back

2684
01:38:51,990 --> 01:38:50,239
in the late 50s i was a wee lad

2685
01:38:54,629 --> 01:38:52,000
i was a weed lad

2686
01:38:56,790 --> 01:38:54,639
not so we i was an overweight kid but a

2687
01:38:58,950 --> 01:38:56,800
not so wee lad

2688
01:39:02,229 --> 01:38:58,960
i used to listen at night to long john

2689
01:39:04,470 --> 01:39:02,239
nipple maybe i was 12 13 years old not

2690
01:39:06,790 --> 01:39:04,480
more 14 or 15.

2691
01:39:08,229 --> 01:39:06,800
my voice was just changing

2692
01:39:10,390 --> 01:39:08,239
i know for some people they're nine

2693
01:39:11,350 --> 01:39:10,400
years old and they sound like a 70 year

2694
01:39:14,470 --> 01:39:11,360
old man

2695
01:39:16,070 --> 01:39:14,480
it took a while for me maybe you know 13

2696
01:39:17,669 --> 01:39:16,080
14 whatever

2697
01:39:19,669 --> 01:39:17,679
so i called

2698
01:39:20,870 --> 01:39:19,679
long john

2699
01:39:22,870 --> 01:39:20,880
on

2700
01:39:25,270 --> 01:39:22,880
he was taking calls from listeners he

2701
01:39:26,870 --> 01:39:25,280
called at the party line so i called him

2702
01:39:29,189 --> 01:39:26,880
and i found the trick anytime you want

2703
01:39:32,229 --> 01:39:29,199
to call you have to learn how to dial

2704
01:39:34,310 --> 01:39:32,239
quickly with a dial phone not with a

2705
01:39:35,590 --> 01:39:34,320
touch tone phone this is way back before

2706
01:39:37,270 --> 01:39:35,600
they had

2707
01:39:38,950 --> 01:39:37,280
those little buttons that you use

2708
01:39:40,550 --> 01:39:38,960
nowadays

2709
01:39:42,390 --> 01:39:40,560
and so i asked him do you believe in

2710
01:39:44,229 --> 01:39:42,400
ufos when i got in the air and he says i

2711
01:39:46,149 --> 01:39:44,239
have no doubt

2712
01:39:47,270 --> 01:39:46,159
that flying saucers come here from other

2713
01:39:48,950 --> 01:39:47,280
planets

2714
01:39:50,470 --> 01:39:48,960
of course no doubt is not expressing

2715
01:39:53,270 --> 01:39:50,480
one's belief

2716
01:39:58,070 --> 01:39:53,280
very tricky guy

2717
01:40:00,870 --> 01:39:58,080
he was only interested in ufos insofar

2718
01:40:02,470 --> 01:40:00,880
as he had a tv show and a radio show and

2719
01:40:04,709 --> 01:40:02,480
he got a paycheck

2720
01:40:07,430 --> 01:40:04,719
then he was interested

2721
01:40:10,310 --> 01:40:07,440
other than that you know he was as they

2722
01:40:12,310 --> 01:40:10,320
say a difficult personality

2723
01:40:13,669 --> 01:40:12,320
that's funny well you know gene we

2724
01:40:15,030 --> 01:40:13,679
always hear about the stories about ah

2725
01:40:16,470 --> 01:40:15,040
this researcher or that researcher

2726
01:40:17,750 --> 01:40:16,480
they're just interested in selling books

2727
01:40:20,390 --> 01:40:17,760
and making money

2728
01:40:23,030 --> 01:40:20,400
and to that i always retort well you

2729
01:40:25,510 --> 01:40:23,040
know if you really wanted to make money

2730
01:40:26,870 --> 01:40:25,520
ufos aren't the thing to write about uh

2731
01:40:28,229 --> 01:40:26,880
there are any number of subjects you

2732
01:40:30,870 --> 01:40:28,239
could choose to write about any number

2733
01:40:33,270 --> 01:40:30,880
of controversies or political scandals

2734
01:40:34,470 --> 01:40:33,280
or or celebrity gossip i mean any number

2735
01:40:35,910 --> 01:40:34,480
of things that could be written about if

2736
01:40:38,149 --> 01:40:35,920
you really are just trying to make money

2737
01:40:40,070 --> 01:40:38,159
as a writer so it kind of seems to me

2738
01:40:42,950 --> 01:40:40,080
that uh as far as people just trying to

2739
01:40:45,350 --> 01:40:42,960
cash in on their involvement in the ufo

2740
01:40:46,229 --> 01:40:45,360
uh circles and whatnot uh that uh that

2741
01:40:49,830 --> 01:40:46,239
that

2742
01:40:51,350 --> 01:40:49,840
seems a bit null and void there are much

2743
01:40:54,070 --> 01:40:51,360
better ways to make money than writing

2744
01:40:57,030 --> 01:40:54,080
about ufos i can tell you that

2745
01:40:59,350 --> 01:40:57,040
i think when money was made about ufos

2746
01:41:02,229 --> 01:40:59,360
when people made money writing books it

2747
01:41:05,109 --> 01:41:02,239
was a long time ago the early books

2748
01:41:06,310 --> 01:41:05,119
some of them made money oh i love the

2749
01:41:08,070 --> 01:41:06,320
early books

2750
01:41:09,590 --> 01:41:08,080
kehoe and

2751
01:41:11,590 --> 01:41:09,600
rupault and

2752
01:41:14,950 --> 01:41:11,600
keel and all the rest i've got a huge

2753
01:41:17,030 --> 01:41:14,960
library of all of that stuff edwards

2754
01:41:19,350 --> 01:41:17,040
got a lot of originals what about all

2755
01:41:21,270 --> 01:41:19,360
the early magazines i guess there's a

2756
01:41:22,550 --> 01:41:21,280
lot of stuff that was printed at one

2757
01:41:25,350 --> 01:41:22,560
time and

2758
01:41:27,109 --> 01:41:25,360
really isn't around anymore except maybe

2759
01:41:29,750 --> 01:41:27,119
in digital format

2760
01:41:30,830 --> 01:41:29,760
they are posting more and more

2761
01:41:34,629 --> 01:41:30,840
digital

2762
01:41:36,070 --> 01:41:34,639
versions of the early ufo magazines

2763
01:41:38,790 --> 01:41:36,080
because what i've seen of that really

2764
01:41:40,229 --> 01:41:38,800
captures the flavor of the era

2765
01:41:41,990 --> 01:41:40,239
well the problem of course when you get

2766
01:41:43,830 --> 01:41:42,000
digital is

2767
01:41:46,470 --> 01:41:43,840
they scan them but they never have the

2768
01:41:48,950 --> 01:41:46,480
scans lined up in the scanning machine

2769
01:41:51,350 --> 01:41:48,960
so you see the pages

2770
01:41:52,550 --> 01:41:51,360
skewed off center a little bit you've

2771
01:41:55,430 --> 01:41:52,560
noticed that

2772
01:41:57,750 --> 01:41:55,440
oh yeah you know on that subject guys

2773
01:41:58,790 --> 01:41:57,760
there's some great old magazines and

2774
01:42:00,310 --> 01:41:58,800
journals that a lot of people aren't

2775
01:42:01,590 --> 01:42:00,320
even aware of that have now been

2776
01:42:03,990 --> 01:42:01,600
digitized that are well worth reading

2777
01:42:06,070 --> 01:42:04,000
the old april journals a lot of those

2778
01:42:08,950 --> 01:42:06,080
are online the zetetic scholar that was

2779
01:42:10,709 --> 01:42:08,960
uh published by marcelo chutzi um and

2780
01:42:12,310 --> 01:42:10,719
and one that is still in print gene you

2781
01:42:14,470 --> 01:42:12,320
know this and of course i i'm a

2782
01:42:15,910 --> 01:42:14,480
columnist for the magazine and hoping

2783
01:42:17,750 --> 01:42:15,920
in the coming

2784
01:42:19,910 --> 01:42:17,760
night truly maybe the next few months

2785
01:42:22,870 --> 01:42:19,920
let alone the coming years but uh fate

2786
01:42:24,790 --> 01:42:22,880
magazine which really began in 1948 was

2787
01:42:25,830 --> 01:42:24,800
one of the premier ufo publications of

2788
01:42:27,590 --> 01:42:25,840
the day

2789
01:42:30,470 --> 01:42:27,600
they're still in print phyllis gauldy is

2790
01:42:31,910 --> 01:42:30,480
a good friend i hear rumors she may may

2791
01:42:33,189 --> 01:42:31,920
be moving to my neck of the woods and

2792
01:42:34,870 --> 01:42:33,199
i'm hoping that she and i we've worked

2793
01:42:36,310 --> 01:42:34,880
together with fate for a long time but

2794
01:42:38,709 --> 01:42:36,320
i'm hoping to

2795
01:42:40,950 --> 01:42:38,719
keep that publication running and and uh

2796
01:42:43,430 --> 01:42:40,960
you know see that as something that is

2797
01:42:45,350 --> 01:42:43,440
one of the few continuances i think of

2798
01:42:47,590 --> 01:42:45,360
that era of publishing where these

2799
01:42:49,510 --> 01:42:47,600
subjects uh could be addressed in a in a

2800
01:42:51,510 --> 01:42:49,520
print medium you know the other problem

2801
01:42:52,870 --> 01:42:51,520
with digital gene is that

2802
01:42:54,870 --> 01:42:52,880
you know these days everybody and his

2803
01:42:56,790 --> 01:42:54,880
brother and sister have got a blog or

2804
01:42:58,950 --> 01:42:56,800
you know an online magazine and there's

2805
01:43:01,270 --> 01:42:58,960
so much saturation back in the old days

2806
01:43:02,790 --> 01:43:01,280
these magazines like argosy true fate

2807
01:43:04,870 --> 01:43:02,800
which was devoted solely to the

2808
01:43:06,870 --> 01:43:04,880
unexplained um

2809
01:43:08,709 --> 01:43:06,880
existing publications like fortian times

2810
01:43:10,709 --> 01:43:08,719
in the uk

2811
01:43:11,830 --> 01:43:10,719
they were the only way apart from the

2812
01:43:14,070 --> 01:43:11,840
newsletters

2813
01:43:15,990 --> 01:43:14,080
that uh put individuals like jim mosley

2814
01:43:17,750 --> 01:43:16,000
you course worked for his that they put

2815
01:43:19,189 --> 01:43:17,760
uh those were the only mediums for being

2816
01:43:20,790 --> 01:43:19,199
able to get this kind of information and

2817
01:43:21,750 --> 01:43:20,800
with the web although there's much more

2818
01:43:24,870 --> 01:43:21,760
access

2819
01:43:26,550 --> 01:43:24,880
it's almost kind of oversaturated too so

2820
01:43:28,070 --> 01:43:26,560
you know i do kind of miss the bygone

2821
01:43:29,350 --> 01:43:28,080
era of buying the magazines on the

2822
01:43:31,910 --> 01:43:29,360
stands and having to read about these

2823
01:43:34,390 --> 01:43:31,920
kind of things and print publications

2824
01:43:37,669 --> 01:43:34,400
what bothers me here is

2825
01:43:39,750 --> 01:43:37,679
with the ubiquity the ease of

2826
01:43:43,590 --> 01:43:39,760
online publishing i mean anybody can

2827
01:43:44,950 --> 01:43:43,600
sign up for a free blog at wordpress

2828
01:43:46,790 --> 01:43:44,960
or at

2829
01:43:50,709 --> 01:43:46,800
google blogspot

2830
01:43:52,870 --> 01:43:50,719
the problem is that the quality

2831
01:43:54,070 --> 01:43:52,880
just ain't there anymore

2832
01:43:56,790 --> 01:43:54,080
yeah

2833
01:44:00,149 --> 01:43:56,800
so they're really not a replacement for

2834
01:44:01,189 --> 01:44:00,159
the magazines or the zines of bygone

2835
01:44:03,030 --> 01:44:01,199
years

2836
01:44:05,030 --> 01:44:03,040
because there's no editorial

2837
01:44:06,550 --> 01:44:05,040
control over what goes in there for the

2838
01:44:07,910 --> 01:44:06,560
most part

2839
01:44:10,550 --> 01:44:07,920
yeah well that brings up a really

2840
01:44:12,390 --> 01:44:10,560
interesting point that i ran across oh

2841
01:44:15,910 --> 01:44:12,400
earlier this year actually about

2842
01:44:19,350 --> 01:44:15,920
wikipedia because i had gone on to

2843
01:44:20,390 --> 01:44:19,360
do some editing on the ufo and ufology

2844
01:44:22,149 --> 01:44:20,400
pages

2845
01:44:25,109 --> 01:44:22,159
and i was discovering

2846
01:44:26,550 --> 01:44:25,119
that within hours of me updating them to

2847
01:44:28,229 --> 01:44:26,560
reflect

2848
01:44:29,510 --> 01:44:28,239
what according to the history of the

2849
01:44:32,070 --> 01:44:29,520
subject matter

2850
01:44:34,070 --> 01:44:32,080
an objective look at it

2851
01:44:35,990 --> 01:44:34,080
actually says it would be changed to

2852
01:44:37,590 --> 01:44:36,000
something that was more skeptically

2853
01:44:39,189 --> 01:44:37,600
opinionated

2854
01:44:41,270 --> 01:44:39,199
and i ran across

2855
01:44:43,109 --> 01:44:41,280
in doing this something called the

2856
01:44:45,030 --> 01:44:43,119
gorilla skeptics

2857
01:44:47,669 --> 01:44:45,040
who actually

2858
01:44:49,910 --> 01:44:47,679
go on to the wikipedia and look at all

2859
01:44:52,709 --> 01:44:49,920
the paranormal subjects

2860
01:44:55,350 --> 01:44:52,719
and they have a mandate to get on there

2861
01:44:57,830 --> 01:44:55,360
and change it to their point of view

2862
01:44:59,910 --> 01:44:57,840
as soon as anybody else goes on there

2863
01:45:00,790 --> 01:44:59,920
and updates it to reflect something that

2864
01:45:02,550 --> 01:45:00,800
is

2865
01:45:05,669 --> 01:45:02,560
whatever in their view

2866
01:45:08,390 --> 01:45:05,679
pro paranormal or pro ufo or something

2867
01:45:10,229 --> 01:45:08,400
else they always put this slant

2868
01:45:11,109 --> 01:45:10,239
into it and some of it is just downright

2869
01:45:13,189 --> 01:45:11,119
wrong

2870
01:45:15,189 --> 01:45:13,199
that's the problem with wikipedia and i

2871
01:45:16,870 --> 01:45:15,199
want to get into it in our next segment

2872
01:45:18,229 --> 01:45:16,880
about the fact that you have these

2873
01:45:20,229 --> 01:45:18,239
groups

2874
01:45:21,830 --> 01:45:20,239
that whenever you change something or

2875
01:45:23,270 --> 01:45:21,840
add something they

2876
01:45:24,709 --> 01:45:23,280
go in there

2877
01:45:26,950 --> 01:45:24,719
and they just

2878
01:45:28,629 --> 01:45:26,960
redo everything there's no control we're

2879
01:45:30,390 --> 01:45:28,639
going to control this message we have

2880
01:45:38,709 --> 01:45:30,400
micah hanks and sue

2881
01:45:44,640 --> 01:45:42,229
you are listening to gcn

2882
01:45:47,430 --> 01:45:44,650
visit gcnlive.com today

2883
01:45:49,430 --> 01:45:47,440
[Music]

2884
01:45:51,750 --> 01:45:49,440
attack of the rockoids has been well

2885
01:45:53,350 --> 01:45:51,760
received by critics and readers alike

2886
01:45:54,790 --> 01:45:53,360
it's a thrill a minute story you'll

2887
01:45:56,709 --> 01:45:54,800
never forget

2888
01:45:59,189 --> 01:45:56,719
a former u.s military intelligence

2889
01:46:01,750 --> 01:45:59,199
officer is haunted by intense dreams

2890
01:46:04,070 --> 01:46:01,760
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

2891
01:46:05,109 --> 01:46:04,080
help after a terrible battle in outer

2892
01:46:07,270 --> 01:46:05,119
space

2893
01:46:09,270 --> 01:46:07,280
but the dreams turn out to be true and

2894
01:46:11,990 --> 01:46:09,280
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

2895
01:46:14,470 --> 01:46:12,000
with a woman whose far away planet is

2896
01:46:16,870 --> 01:46:14,480
intent on destroying the earth

2897
01:46:19,430 --> 01:46:16,880
and now the gripping tale continues in

2898
01:46:21,990 --> 01:46:19,440
the coming of the protectors it's the

2899
01:46:24,149 --> 01:46:22,000
second book of the rockoids trilogy a

2900
01:46:26,470 --> 01:46:24,159
galaxy spanning adventure that pits our

2901
01:46:28,709 --> 01:46:26,480
hapless heroes against powerful

2902
01:46:30,629 --> 01:46:28,719
fanatical enemies that threaten the

2903
01:46:31,750 --> 01:46:30,639
lives of freedom-loving beings

2904
01:46:34,470 --> 01:46:31,760
everywhere

2905
01:46:37,430 --> 01:46:34,480
attack of the rockoids and the coming of

2906
01:46:40,310 --> 01:46:37,440
the protectors classic science fiction

2907
01:46:44,229 --> 01:46:40,320
at its best available now for more

2908
01:46:49,430 --> 01:46:44,239
details visit rockoids.com that's r o c

2909
01:46:52,790 --> 01:46:50,950
this is dan pillow do you have the irs

2910
01:46:54,629 --> 01:46:52,800
money you can't pay are tax debts

2911
01:46:57,030 --> 01:46:54,639
crippling you i've defended people from

2912
01:46:59,109 --> 01:46:57,040
the irs for over 30 years i've helped

2913
01:47:00,470 --> 01:46:59,119
thousands and i can help you too i wrote

2914
01:47:02,229 --> 01:47:00,480
the book on irs settlement and i'm

2915
01:47:05,910 --> 01:47:02,239
telling you there's no such thing as a

2916
01:47:08,149 --> 01:47:05,920
hopeless case call 834 no tax to finally

2917
01:47:09,669 --> 01:47:08,159
get free of irs debt with the irs's new

2918
01:47:12,470 --> 01:47:09,679
programs there's never been a better

2919
01:47:16,310 --> 01:47:12,480
time to solve your problem call 834 no

2920
01:47:18,709 --> 01:47:16,320
tax that's 800 34 no tax or my website

2921
01:47:21,270 --> 01:47:18,719
danpilla.com

2922
01:47:23,030 --> 01:47:21,280
attention backpackers on a budget why

2923
01:47:25,189 --> 01:47:23,040
spend eighty to three hundred dollars to

2924
01:47:27,189 --> 01:47:25,199
pump clean survival water introducing

2925
01:47:29,669 --> 01:47:27,199
the viba water pump kit from viva

2926
01:47:32,149 --> 01:47:29,679
outdoor products super easy to use and

2927
01:47:34,310 --> 01:47:32,159
super lightweight at only 6.5 ounces the

2928
01:47:36,470 --> 01:47:34,320
viba water pump kit provides high flow

2929
01:47:38,310 --> 01:47:36,480
rate at one ounce per stroke can be one

2930
01:47:40,950 --> 01:47:38,320
hand pumped and is dependable and

2931
01:47:44,510 --> 01:47:40,960
affordable at only 24.99 filter not

2932
01:47:47,510 --> 01:47:44,520
included get your viva water pump kit at

2933
01:47:56,149 --> 01:47:47,520
v-i-b-a-o-d-p dot com from viba outdoor

2934
01:48:03,109 --> 01:47:59,430
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2935
01:48:07,690 --> 01:48:03,119
standard of paranormal radio

2936
01:48:11,189 --> 01:48:07,700
and now here's jane steinberg

2937
01:48:15,669 --> 01:48:13,510
she has all these voices there you know

2938
01:48:17,910 --> 01:48:15,679
if you notice this listen to that

2939
01:48:19,910 --> 01:48:17,920
all these voices we didn't believe or

2940
01:48:22,709 --> 01:48:19,920
expect that we had all that talent

2941
01:48:24,310 --> 01:48:22,719
lurking there my hat is very large

2942
01:48:25,510 --> 01:48:24,320
is that what it is

2943
01:48:28,149 --> 01:48:25,520
yeah

2944
01:48:30,629 --> 01:48:28,159
but i was saying about wikipedia you've

2945
01:48:33,270 --> 01:48:30,639
got like this little group these various

2946
01:48:36,870 --> 01:48:33,280
clicks that work on there

2947
01:48:38,550 --> 01:48:36,880
and once they got a specific meme going

2948
01:48:40,550 --> 01:48:38,560
it's almost impossible to change because

2949
01:48:42,149 --> 01:48:40,560
you can't lock it in

2950
01:48:43,750 --> 01:48:42,159
you can't go on there and say this is

2951
01:48:45,669 --> 01:48:43,760
the true version

2952
01:48:47,510 --> 01:48:45,679
before the bandits get in there and do

2953
01:48:49,430 --> 01:48:47,520
their own thing you know gene you and i

2954
01:48:52,229 --> 01:48:49,440
have addressed this uh i think a few

2955
01:48:53,750 --> 01:48:52,239
times in the past on the pericast and uh

2956
01:48:55,270 --> 01:48:53,760
you know i'm very glad that randall you

2957
01:48:57,270 --> 01:48:55,280
brought that up because

2958
01:48:59,750 --> 01:48:57,280
i spent a little time back in february

2959
01:49:01,430 --> 01:48:59,760
out in california and uh my day started

2960
01:49:04,229 --> 01:49:01,440
off like a james bond mission i was up

2961
01:49:06,950 --> 01:49:04,239
before the crack of dawn on a plane

2962
01:49:09,270 --> 01:49:06,960
well before sunrise i i get out there 10

2963
01:49:11,669 --> 01:49:09,280
a.m california time land in the airport

2964
01:49:13,109 --> 01:49:11,679
and i'm immediately contacted by the

2965
01:49:14,390 --> 01:49:13,119
person who'd hired me to come out there

2966
01:49:16,229 --> 01:49:14,400
to speak at this event and said that

2967
01:49:18,149 --> 01:49:16,239
you're to find stanton friedman and get

2968
01:49:19,669 --> 01:49:18,159
him in the car with you and you know my

2969
01:49:20,870 --> 01:49:19,679
contact will be there waiting for you in

2970
01:49:22,390 --> 01:49:20,880
a large white vehicle and we're going to

2971
01:49:24,149 --> 01:49:22,400
drive you up into the mountains and so

2972
01:49:26,790 --> 01:49:24,159
it felt like a james bond film you know

2973
01:49:28,229 --> 01:49:26,800
i got a i just you know dropped down in

2974
01:49:30,390 --> 01:49:28,239
los angeles i've got to find a famous

2975
01:49:33,270 --> 01:49:30,400
nuclear physicist and ufo researcher

2976
01:49:34,790 --> 01:49:33,280
anyway all kidding aside i found stan he

2977
01:49:36,229 --> 01:49:34,800
and i were catching up and talking he

2978
01:49:37,590 --> 01:49:36,239
was talking about for instance some of

2979
01:49:39,830 --> 01:49:37,600
the research he did at the national

2980
01:49:41,270 --> 01:49:39,840
archives that indicated a security

2981
01:49:43,189 --> 01:49:41,280
clearance that had been held well into

2982
01:49:45,669 --> 01:49:43,199
the career of donald menzel one of the

2983
01:49:48,070 --> 01:49:45,679
popular ufo skeptics of the era which

2984
01:49:50,149 --> 01:49:48,080
the era being the 50s and 60s even more

2985
01:49:52,390 --> 01:49:50,159
interesting there had been discussions

2986
01:49:53,990 --> 01:49:52,400
via letters between menzel and

2987
01:49:55,830 --> 01:49:54,000
the man who would go on to become u.s

2988
01:49:58,070 --> 01:49:55,840
president john f kennedy and some of

2989
01:49:59,590 --> 01:49:58,080
these not only discussed uh this the

2990
01:50:02,470 --> 01:49:59,600
interest in astronomy that kennedy had

2991
01:50:03,990 --> 01:50:02,480
had but menzel also says you know in so

2992
01:50:05,270 --> 01:50:04,000
many words to kennedy that you know if

2993
01:50:06,390 --> 01:50:05,280
you had the proper clearance i might be

2994
01:50:07,430 --> 01:50:06,400
able to discuss some of these things

2995
01:50:08,870 --> 01:50:07,440
with you

2996
01:50:10,550 --> 01:50:08,880
so i went online to try and look up

2997
01:50:11,910 --> 01:50:10,560
information about donald menzel in the

2998
01:50:14,470 --> 01:50:11,920
talks section

2999
01:50:16,149 --> 01:50:14,480
on wikipedia you'll often find subjects

3000
01:50:17,590 --> 01:50:16,159
that are being discussed for

3001
01:50:19,590 --> 01:50:17,600
consideration for inclusion in the

3002
01:50:21,669 --> 01:50:19,600
primary article but often aren't

3003
01:50:22,870 --> 01:50:21,679
you'll never find anyone in the skeptic

3004
01:50:24,709 --> 01:50:22,880
camps that are very interested in

3005
01:50:26,950 --> 01:50:24,719
discussing the security clearances that

3006
01:50:29,030 --> 01:50:26,960
menzel had had now again stanton uses

3007
01:50:32,229 --> 01:50:29,040
this as justification for the idea that

3008
01:50:34,149 --> 01:50:32,239
the mj12 papers actually were legitimate

3009
01:50:36,229 --> 01:50:34,159
whether or not that's the case i find

3010
01:50:39,750 --> 01:50:36,239
that not to be so much the point here i

3011
01:50:41,430 --> 01:50:39,760
went to the mj-12 page majestic 12 on

3012
01:50:43,109 --> 01:50:41,440
wikipedia there's very little it's a

3013
01:50:44,790 --> 01:50:43,119
very sparse article and i had remembered

3014
01:50:46,709 --> 01:50:44,800
at one point there were being more and

3015
01:50:48,149 --> 01:50:46,719
so one thing about wikipedia that's

3016
01:50:50,310 --> 01:50:48,159
interesting is you can go back and look

3017
01:50:51,830 --> 01:50:50,320
at the revision history of articles and

3018
01:50:52,950 --> 01:50:51,840
sadly when it comes to these sorts of

3019
01:50:54,950 --> 01:50:52,960
subjects you'll find a lot more

3020
01:50:56,390 --> 01:50:54,960
information by doing that because of

3021
01:50:57,830 --> 01:50:56,400
these so-called guerrilla skeptics

3022
01:50:59,910 --> 01:50:57,840
you're talking about

3023
01:51:02,070 --> 01:50:59,920
there was so much good information at

3024
01:51:05,430 --> 01:51:02,080
one time on that page and much of it was

3025
01:51:07,750 --> 01:51:05,440
skeptical data about mj-12 arguments

3026
01:51:09,030 --> 01:51:07,760
against mj-12 you'd think that this

3027
01:51:10,390 --> 01:51:09,040
would be the kind of thing that skeptics

3028
01:51:11,990 --> 01:51:10,400
would want but not even that is good

3029
01:51:13,669 --> 01:51:12,000
enough they have to trim away all of

3030
01:51:15,750 --> 01:51:13,679
that data as though they don't want the

3031
01:51:17,350 --> 01:51:15,760
discussion to be had in the first place

3032
01:51:19,270 --> 01:51:17,360
it's got to be the short little sparse

3033
01:51:23,350 --> 01:51:19,280
article oh no it's wikipedia we don't

3034
01:51:25,109 --> 01:51:23,360
want woo-woo kapedia so they trim away

3035
01:51:27,189 --> 01:51:25,119
all of this discussion even some of the

3036
01:51:29,669 --> 01:51:27,199
good skeptical data and i find that

3037
01:51:31,750 --> 01:51:29,679
atrocious why is it that not only can we

3038
01:51:34,709 --> 01:51:31,760
not espouse skepticism and belief we

3039
01:51:36,470 --> 01:51:34,719
can't even have a full discussion

3040
01:51:38,149 --> 01:51:36,480
there is an issue here and that is

3041
01:51:39,270 --> 01:51:38,159
definitely something that's concerning

3042
01:51:40,709 --> 01:51:39,280
and i would say

3043
01:51:43,390 --> 01:51:40,719
well and actually there are various

3044
01:51:45,270 --> 01:51:43,400
sites that do just what i'm about to say

3045
01:51:47,350 --> 01:51:45,280
forums.thebarecast.com is one but you

3046
01:51:48,709 --> 01:51:47,360
could go start your own site but again

3047
01:51:50,310 --> 01:51:48,719
the problem is is that if we've already

3048
01:51:52,950 --> 01:51:50,320
got an existing site with the kind of

3049
01:51:54,950 --> 01:51:52,960
broad appeal in the reach of wikipedia

3050
01:51:56,709 --> 01:51:54,960
why is it that certain subjects again

3051
01:51:59,270 --> 01:51:56,719
seem to not only be controlled and

3052
01:52:02,070 --> 01:51:59,280
moderated to the point of extreme bias

3053
01:52:03,589 --> 01:52:02,080
but that even relevant factual skeptical

3054
01:52:05,430 --> 01:52:03,599
data has to be omitted as well that just

3055
01:52:07,350 --> 01:52:05,440
seems strange to me well i think part of

3056
01:52:08,790 --> 01:52:07,360
the problem with wikipedia is there's

3057
01:52:12,229 --> 01:52:08,800
really no

3058
01:52:14,550 --> 01:52:12,239
powerful governing body to edit this

3059
01:52:16,790 --> 01:52:14,560
it's all open source anybody can

3060
01:52:18,470 --> 01:52:16,800
contribute stuff to it there are basic

3061
01:52:20,950 --> 01:52:18,480
minimum standards

3062
01:52:23,430 --> 01:52:20,960
to verify at least with a reference of

3063
01:52:26,229 --> 01:52:23,440
some sort what you post there but there

3064
01:52:29,350 --> 01:52:26,239
are no standards to be met there's no

3065
01:52:30,950 --> 01:52:29,360
governing body to set standards on

3066
01:52:32,550 --> 01:52:30,960
accuracy so

3067
01:52:34,709 --> 01:52:32,560
anything can be there we all use

3068
01:52:37,189 --> 01:52:34,719
wikipedia to look up stuff

3069
01:52:38,550 --> 01:52:37,199
but as a fact of the matter is it

3070
01:52:40,709 --> 01:52:38,560
doesn't mean you're getting much that's

3071
01:52:43,350 --> 01:52:40,719
accurate well we'll say this the

3072
01:52:45,430 --> 01:52:43,360
wikipedia foundation i get their emails

3073
01:52:47,750 --> 01:52:45,440
i donate periodically to wikipedia

3074
01:52:49,189 --> 01:52:47,760
because i do appreciate the information

3075
01:52:51,030 --> 01:52:49,199
that they present and the service they

3076
01:52:52,709 --> 01:52:51,040
provide and i do that despite the fact

3077
01:52:55,189 --> 01:52:52,719
that i happen to know that among the

3078
01:52:57,270 --> 01:52:55,199
wikipedia foundation there jimmy wales

3079
01:52:59,430 --> 01:52:57,280
and many others have very openly

3080
01:53:01,589 --> 01:52:59,440
expressed their attitudes about what

3081
01:53:03,990 --> 01:53:01,599
they deem woo-woo subjects they

3082
01:53:05,910 --> 01:53:04,000
typically are are most concerned about

3083
01:53:07,910 --> 01:53:05,920
things like holistic medicine and these

3084
01:53:10,550 --> 01:53:07,920
kinds of issues but unfortunately we see

3085
01:53:12,709 --> 01:53:10,560
that same sort of biased attitude toward

3086
01:53:14,149 --> 01:53:12,719
again even skeptical discussion of ufos

3087
01:53:16,149 --> 01:53:14,159
otherwise this information wouldn't be

3088
01:53:18,310 --> 01:53:16,159
trimmed and edited out of what could

3089
01:53:19,830 --> 01:53:18,320
otherwise be very long comprehensive

3090
01:53:21,589 --> 01:53:19,840
articles if if we're trying to get

3091
01:53:23,990 --> 01:53:21,599
information the summation of human

3092
01:53:26,470 --> 01:53:24,000
knowledge on this website

3093
01:53:28,550 --> 01:53:26,480
why do those subjects seem to be unfit

3094
01:53:30,629 --> 01:53:28,560
for having a lengthy discussion while

3095
01:53:32,709 --> 01:53:30,639
others again have pages that trail on

3096
01:53:34,470 --> 01:53:32,719
forever we want data don't we well let's

3097
01:53:36,629 --> 01:53:34,480
put the data out there let's not dumb

3098
01:53:38,470 --> 01:53:36,639
down the conversation and trim away all

3099
01:53:39,990 --> 01:53:38,480
as though to edit those conversations

3100
01:53:42,149 --> 01:53:40,000
out almost entirely and that does seem

3101
01:53:44,709 --> 01:53:42,159
to be what wikipedia does at times oh

3102
01:53:46,790 --> 01:53:44,719
definitely and they do tolerate this

3103
01:53:49,669 --> 01:53:46,800
guerrilla skeptic's involvement in the

3104
01:53:52,870 --> 01:53:49,679
wikipedia for sure they allow it to take

3105
01:53:55,189 --> 01:53:52,880
place without any kind of uh criticism i

3106
01:53:56,870 --> 01:53:55,199
know that at one point something that i

3107
01:53:59,109 --> 01:53:56,880
had put in had been taken out by a

3108
01:54:01,350 --> 01:53:59,119
moderator and i asked why i had

3109
01:54:03,910 --> 01:54:01,360
references and so on to

3110
01:54:05,910 --> 01:54:03,920
books that had with the information and

3111
01:54:08,390 --> 01:54:05,920
just like i was supposed to but because

3112
01:54:10,229 --> 01:54:08,400
i put in my own profile

3113
01:54:13,510 --> 01:54:10,239
that i was interested in ufos they

3114
01:54:15,109 --> 01:54:13,520
deemed it to be a biased okay so does

3115
01:54:16,950 --> 01:54:15,119
that mean that

3116
01:54:18,870 --> 01:54:16,960
okay i'm a ufologist

3117
01:54:21,030 --> 01:54:18,880
and i write about ufology and therefore

3118
01:54:23,109 --> 01:54:21,040
i'm biased well does that mean that a

3119
01:54:24,470 --> 01:54:23,119
geologist who writes about geology is

3120
01:54:25,669 --> 01:54:24,480
biased

3121
01:54:27,350 --> 01:54:25,679
so

3122
01:54:29,510 --> 01:54:27,360
why can't the people who have the

3123
01:54:32,229 --> 01:54:29,520
knowledge in the field contribute

3124
01:54:33,830 --> 01:54:32,239
without being perceived as biased

3125
01:54:39,589 --> 01:54:33,840
and yet

3126
01:54:41,030 --> 01:54:39,599
are deemed as not having a bias

3127
01:54:42,790 --> 01:54:41,040
there seems to be a double standard

3128
01:54:44,070 --> 01:54:42,800
there randall if i may i'll give one

3129
01:54:45,589 --> 01:54:44,080
more brief example that's similar to

3130
01:54:47,189 --> 01:54:45,599
what you just described

3131
01:54:49,109 --> 01:54:47,199
with my brown mountain alliance research

3132
01:54:51,270 --> 01:54:49,119
i was very interested in looking at what

3133
01:54:53,030 --> 01:54:51,280
information was not only being discussed

3134
01:54:54,790 --> 01:54:53,040
in the talk page because rather than the

3135
01:54:56,390 --> 01:54:54,800
primary article i'll again drive home

3136
01:54:59,030 --> 01:54:56,400
the point that sometimes you'll find

3137
01:55:00,790 --> 01:54:59,040
better leads in the talk page and in the

3138
01:55:02,229 --> 01:55:00,800
revision history where information has

3139
01:55:04,390 --> 01:55:02,239
been edited out

3140
01:55:05,830 --> 01:55:04,400
i found on one occasion that there was

3141
01:55:07,189 --> 01:55:05,840
an experiment and i happened to know

3142
01:55:08,870 --> 01:55:07,199
this experiment took place because i

3143
01:55:11,350 --> 01:55:08,880
know one of the individuals from oak

3144
01:55:13,109 --> 01:55:11,360
ridge laboratories who had been involved

3145
01:55:16,709 --> 01:55:13,119
but there had been an experiment done

3146
01:55:18,550 --> 01:55:16,719
with a extremely high candle power light

3147
01:55:21,510 --> 01:55:18,560
and they were trying to test their

3148
01:55:23,430 --> 01:55:21,520
refraction theory at brown mountain and

3149
01:55:25,510 --> 01:55:23,440
they had managed to cause the appearance

3150
01:55:27,109 --> 01:55:25,520
of large red illumination over the ridge

3151
01:55:29,430 --> 01:55:27,119
by shining a large

3152
01:55:31,990 --> 01:55:29,440
lamp in that direction anyway long story

3153
01:55:33,750 --> 01:55:32,000
short one of the editors chose to remove

3154
01:55:35,669 --> 01:55:33,760
that content from the primary article

3155
01:55:37,189 --> 01:55:35,679
and said i dread having to do this

3156
01:55:38,550 --> 01:55:37,199
because i actually talked with one of

3157
01:55:40,070 --> 01:55:38,560
the researchers who explained this

3158
01:55:41,830 --> 01:55:40,080
experiment to me years ago and i happen

3159
01:55:44,390 --> 01:55:41,840
to know that it did occur but since i

3160
01:55:45,910 --> 01:55:44,400
can't find any reliable source i won't

3161
01:55:46,709 --> 01:55:45,920
include it the reliable source that had

3162
01:55:48,229 --> 01:55:46,719
been

3163
01:55:49,750 --> 01:55:48,239
used previously and that was

3164
01:55:51,910 --> 01:55:49,760
subsequently removed was one of the

3165
01:55:53,350 --> 01:55:51,920
science frontiers links which of course

3166
01:55:55,589 --> 01:55:53,360
had been one of the websites that had

3167
01:55:57,189 --> 01:55:55,599
presented by william r corliss's data

3168
01:55:59,030 --> 01:55:57,199
over the years this was considered unfit

3169
01:56:00,870 --> 01:55:59,040
for inclusion as a link for source

3170
01:56:02,870 --> 01:56:00,880
material on wikipedia despite the fact

3171
01:56:04,550 --> 01:56:02,880
that the editor knew that the experiment

3172
01:56:06,790 --> 01:56:04,560
in question had taken place he'd met one

3173
01:56:09,510 --> 01:56:06,800
of the experimenters that's ridiculous

3174
01:56:11,109 --> 01:56:09,520
is what that is it's absurd that is as

3175
01:56:12,870 --> 01:56:11,119
much a bias as you being a ufo

3176
01:56:14,310 --> 01:56:12,880
researcher writing about ufos in your

3177
01:56:17,030 --> 01:56:14,320
discussion about geologists writing

3178
01:56:18,070 --> 01:56:17,040
about geology do we not want geologists

3179
01:56:19,990 --> 01:56:18,080
to write about the subject they

3180
01:56:21,350 --> 01:56:20,000
understand the best for fear of bias

3181
01:56:23,350 --> 01:56:21,360
leaking into a scientific article on

3182
01:56:25,189 --> 01:56:23,360
wikipedia sometimes knowledge is

3183
01:56:26,870 --> 01:56:25,199
knowledge and even if it's a position

3184
01:56:28,070 --> 01:56:26,880
you don't agree with we need to be in a

3185
01:56:29,750 --> 01:56:28,080
position where we allow people who

3186
01:56:31,109 --> 01:56:29,760
possess certain knowledge to discuss

3187
01:56:33,430 --> 01:56:31,119
those subjects

3188
01:56:35,350 --> 01:56:33,440
well said that's really the bottom line

3189
01:56:37,189 --> 01:56:35,360
to play devil's advocate though i think

3190
01:56:39,189 --> 01:56:37,199
ufology does have a problem where there

3191
01:56:41,750 --> 01:56:39,199
isn't really a literature that you can

3192
01:56:44,189 --> 01:56:41,760
go into and say i want to see all the

3193
01:56:47,270 --> 01:56:44,199
articles on brown mountain lights from

3194
01:56:48,950 --> 01:56:47,280
1962 onward or i want to see

3195
01:56:50,950 --> 01:56:48,960
everything that people have written on

3196
01:56:53,030 --> 01:56:50,960
this topic so that i can compare the

3197
01:56:54,149 --> 01:56:53,040
different interpretations that have been

3198
01:56:56,390 --> 01:56:54,159
put forth

3199
01:56:58,629 --> 01:56:56,400
there's no good way that i'm aware of to

3200
01:57:00,870 --> 01:56:58,639
kind of build on a foundation of

3201
01:57:02,709 --> 01:57:00,880
knowledge and continually refine it and

3202
01:57:04,870 --> 01:57:02,719
if there is i'd like to know about it

3203
01:57:07,189 --> 01:57:04,880
well that's a fair comment absolutely

3204
01:57:10,950 --> 01:57:07,199
that's what i tried to do with my own

3205
01:57:13,589 --> 01:57:10,960
website and hence why i started the usi

3206
01:57:15,750 --> 01:57:13,599
website because nobody can mess with it

3207
01:57:18,629 --> 01:57:15,760
i can go in i can find the

3208
01:57:21,109 --> 01:57:18,639
best available evidence and references

3209
01:57:23,669 --> 01:57:21,119
for the articles that are written there

3210
01:57:24,790 --> 01:57:23,679
and they're all reviewed and if i see

3211
01:57:26,310 --> 01:57:24,800
anything that's wrong with them or

3212
01:57:28,870 --> 01:57:26,320
they're not substantiated well enough

3213
01:57:30,470 --> 01:57:28,880
then uh i say so and some people have

3214
01:57:34,229 --> 01:57:30,480
accused me of being

3215
01:57:36,470 --> 01:57:34,239
too critical uh even a debunker

3216
01:57:38,310 --> 01:57:36,480
that's a good breaking point guys

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02:00:01,830 --> 02:00:00,000
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3270
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3275
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3276
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3278
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3279
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3280
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3301
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3302
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3306
02:01:55,030 --> 02:01:52,629
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3307
02:01:58,629 --> 02:01:55,040
comment or question about the paracast

3308
02:02:01,830 --> 02:01:58,639
send it to news at the paracast.com

3309
02:02:03,669 --> 02:02:01,840
that's news at theparacast.com

3310
02:02:06,149 --> 02:02:03,679
and don't forget to visit our famous

3311
02:02:10,550 --> 02:02:06,159
paracast community forums at

3312
02:02:13,830 --> 02:02:12,149
i think sometimes people think we're

3313
02:02:18,870 --> 02:02:13,840
saying the parrot

3314
02:02:20,550 --> 02:02:18,880
cast oh wow

3315
02:02:22,550 --> 02:02:20,560
someone named paulie

3316
02:02:24,550 --> 02:02:22,560
asked for a cracker

3317
02:02:29,109 --> 02:02:24,560
i think that's where it all started all

3318
02:02:33,910 --> 02:02:31,669
i like it you see how that came to a

3319
02:02:35,830 --> 02:02:33,920
dead stop yeah anyway you were telling

3320
02:02:37,589 --> 02:02:35,840
us randall how you try to vet the stuff

3321
02:02:39,510 --> 02:02:37,599
that's on your site we hope

3322
02:02:42,070 --> 02:02:39,520
all of the people who do have sites

3323
02:02:43,510 --> 02:02:42,080
about ufos try to make an effort

3324
02:02:45,589 --> 02:02:43,520
sometimes of course what they do is

3325
02:02:47,109 --> 02:02:45,599
they're just happy to get traffic

3326
02:02:49,030 --> 02:02:47,119
that's another problem i think he was

3327
02:02:50,790 --> 02:02:49,040
actually telling us he was a debunker or

3328
02:02:52,470 --> 02:02:50,800
at least has been accused of being one

3329
02:02:55,430 --> 02:02:52,480
well that's the point too yeah well the

3330
02:02:58,629 --> 02:02:55,440
point is here that you're trying to

3331
02:03:01,189 --> 02:02:58,639
present specific presentation

3332
02:03:03,510 --> 02:03:01,199
on your site and trying to be fair about

3333
02:03:05,189 --> 02:03:03,520
everything yeah like sue says you need

3334
02:03:07,350 --> 02:03:05,199
to look at both sides of the issue you

3335
02:03:09,510 --> 02:03:07,360
need to do some cross-referencing

3336
02:03:10,709 --> 02:03:09,520
and before i write anything that's what

3337
02:03:13,430 --> 02:03:10,719
i do

3338
02:03:15,350 --> 02:03:13,440
and so well for example there's the

3339
02:03:18,070 --> 02:03:15,360
sith graves national forest incident

3340
02:03:20,709 --> 02:03:18,080
known as well the travis walton incident

3341
02:03:22,790 --> 02:03:20,719
and i've met many many people who were

3342
02:03:25,910 --> 02:03:22,800
completely convinced that that's a true

3343
02:03:26,950 --> 02:03:25,920
story and yet when you get looking into

3344
02:03:31,750 --> 02:03:26,960
the

3345
02:03:33,830 --> 02:03:31,760
you might not like someone like uh

3346
02:03:35,270 --> 02:03:33,840
philip class he did

3347
02:03:37,830 --> 02:03:35,280
dig up some information on the

3348
02:03:39,830 --> 02:03:37,840
backgrounds of walton and

3349
02:03:41,750 --> 02:03:39,840
made some pretty good points as to well

3350
02:03:43,430 --> 02:03:41,760
really why should we believe this

3351
02:03:45,589 --> 02:03:43,440
person's story and

3352
02:03:47,589 --> 02:03:45,599
i don't want to go into it in detail

3353
02:03:50,470 --> 02:03:47,599
randall why don't we

3354
02:03:51,830 --> 02:03:50,480
cover some of it we had travis walton on

3355
02:03:55,030 --> 02:03:51,840
the power cast

3356
02:03:57,350 --> 02:03:55,040
months and months ago one time only so

3357
02:03:58,870 --> 02:03:57,360
looking at both sides here those who

3358
02:04:01,189 --> 02:03:58,880
favor him

3359
02:04:03,750 --> 02:04:01,199
and the skeptical point of view

3360
02:04:05,750 --> 02:04:03,760
you sound like you have concerns about

3361
02:04:08,229 --> 02:04:05,760
him

3362
02:04:10,550 --> 02:04:08,239
i think anyone should have concerns and

3363
02:04:12,629 --> 02:04:10,560
let's just briefly say that the word

3364
02:04:14,070 --> 02:04:12,639
debunk there's nothing really wrong with

3365
02:04:16,790 --> 02:04:14,080
that if you can debunk something

3366
02:04:18,950 --> 02:04:16,800
legitimately you should if there is a

3367
02:04:20,550 --> 02:04:18,960
truth to be told and a truth to be found

3368
02:04:22,709 --> 02:04:20,560
we should find it and it should be put

3369
02:04:24,790 --> 02:04:22,719
out there debunkers have uncovered

3370
02:04:27,430 --> 02:04:24,800
serious credibility flaws in walton and

3371
02:04:28,950 --> 02:04:27,440
his story he did pass two polygraph

3372
02:04:29,830 --> 02:04:28,960
tests but it was discovered that there

3373
02:04:31,910 --> 02:04:29,840
was a

3374
02:04:33,750 --> 02:04:31,920
previous test from which the polygraph

3375
02:04:35,830 --> 02:04:33,760
examiner concluded that walton was

3376
02:04:37,910 --> 02:04:35,840
attempting to perpetrate a hoax you

3377
02:04:39,589 --> 02:04:37,920
don't hear about that it was discovered

3378
02:04:40,629 --> 02:04:39,599
that the questions used in the later

3379
02:04:42,629 --> 02:04:40,639
tests

3380
02:04:44,470 --> 02:04:42,639
had to be approved by walton himself

3381
02:04:46,550 --> 02:04:44,480
before the test could be administered

3382
02:04:48,149 --> 02:04:46,560
you don't hear about that that's

3383
02:04:51,030 --> 02:04:48,159
actually standard

3384
02:04:52,709 --> 02:04:51,040
lie detector protocol though to agree on

3385
02:04:54,310 --> 02:04:52,719
the questions

3386
02:04:55,510 --> 02:04:54,320
but sorry i didn't mean to sidetrack you

3387
02:04:58,229 --> 02:04:55,520
please continue

3388
02:05:01,589 --> 02:04:58,239
i'm not a polygraph expert but

3389
02:05:02,629 --> 02:05:01,599
i have had a polygraph myself actually

3390
02:05:04,390 --> 02:05:02,639
and

3391
02:05:06,950 --> 02:05:04,400
that was not my experience with it but

3392
02:05:09,669 --> 02:05:06,960
maybe it might depend on what location

3393
02:05:12,229 --> 02:05:09,679
or who's doing the tests true yeah

3394
02:05:13,270 --> 02:05:12,239
he was on a television show with the

3395
02:05:17,589 --> 02:05:13,280
truth

3396
02:05:19,430 --> 02:05:17,599
type of thing where he was took a

3397
02:05:22,470 --> 02:05:19,440
polygraph and failed it

3398
02:05:24,390 --> 02:05:22,480
kufos ground saucer watch in cooperation

3399
02:05:26,229 --> 02:05:24,400
with them concluded that there was no

3400
02:05:27,910 --> 02:05:26,239
corroborating evidence that walton had

3401
02:05:28,709 --> 02:05:27,920
boarded a ufo

3402
02:05:32,310 --> 02:05:28,719
it

3403
02:05:34,390 --> 02:05:32,320
issues about

3404
02:05:36,870 --> 02:05:34,400
he tried to gain media exposure but was

3405
02:05:40,149 --> 02:05:36,880
turned down by the radio station he'd

3406
02:05:42,629 --> 02:05:40,159
actually been caught pled guilty forging

3407
02:05:45,669 --> 02:05:42,639
payroll checks this is walton

3408
02:05:48,070 --> 02:05:45,679
this is walton okay sure okay so i mean

3409
02:05:51,350 --> 02:05:48,080
this is actually something that you can

3410
02:05:53,109 --> 02:05:51,360
look up and you can find factually so

3411
02:05:55,030 --> 02:05:53,119
yeah it was a moment of truth in which

3412
02:05:55,910 --> 02:05:55,040
he he was asked on whether or not he was

3413
02:05:58,390 --> 02:05:55,920
on a

3414
02:05:59,510 --> 02:05:58,400
a ufo and he said yes and it was scored

3415
02:06:01,350 --> 02:05:59,520
false

3416
02:06:03,589 --> 02:06:01,360
but and then they say well there was no

3417
02:06:05,189 --> 02:06:03,599
money involved but he and his crew stood

3418
02:06:06,709 --> 02:06:05,199
to gain up to a hundred thousand dollars

3419
02:06:08,070 --> 02:06:06,719
for submitting their story to national

3420
02:06:10,070 --> 02:06:08,080
enquirer

3421
02:06:11,830 --> 02:06:10,080
and i mean this just sort of kind of

3422
02:06:13,750 --> 02:06:11,840
goes on and on and on i mean if somebody

3423
02:06:16,550 --> 02:06:13,760
came up to you you know after stealing

3424
02:06:18,790 --> 02:06:16,560
your your checkbook and attempting to

3425
02:06:21,510 --> 02:06:18,800
cash checks and and then said well hey i

3426
02:06:23,030 --> 02:06:21,520
saw a ufo would you give me the uh you

3427
02:06:25,189 --> 02:06:23,040
know can you please give me the prize

3428
02:06:27,030 --> 02:06:25,199
for it or how many people are going to

3429
02:06:29,750 --> 02:06:27,040
be inclined to believe it

3430
02:06:31,669 --> 02:06:29,760
now this could be a case of maybe you

3431
02:06:32,390 --> 02:06:31,679
know boy cried wolf type of thing or

3432
02:06:33,430 --> 02:06:32,400
just

3433
02:06:35,430 --> 02:06:33,440
you know that

3434
02:06:37,910 --> 02:06:35,440
unreliable people can still have genuine

3435
02:06:40,550 --> 02:06:37,920
experiences but it really does cast

3436
02:06:42,709 --> 02:06:40,560
appall of unreliability on the story

3437
02:06:45,109 --> 02:06:42,719
that a lot of people aren't aware of

3438
02:06:47,350 --> 02:06:45,119
now my understanding was that walton had

3439
02:06:48,870 --> 02:06:47,360
taken more than one lie detector test

3440
02:06:51,430 --> 02:06:48,880
and the results

3441
02:06:53,669 --> 02:06:51,440
varied but even then a lie detector is

3442
02:06:54,550 --> 02:06:53,679
not a hundred percent accurate or even

3443
02:06:56,470 --> 02:06:54,560
close

3444
02:06:58,950 --> 02:06:56,480
on the other hand if you see evidence of

3445
02:07:00,390 --> 02:06:58,960
possible deception that has to be an

3446
02:07:01,990 --> 02:07:00,400
area of concern

3447
02:07:04,069 --> 02:07:02,000
oh definitely and

3448
02:07:05,910 --> 02:07:04,079
when you look at what it just boils down

3449
02:07:08,229 --> 02:07:05,920
to is his credibility

3450
02:07:09,270 --> 02:07:08,239
here you have to take him at faith

3451
02:07:12,390 --> 02:07:09,280
because

3452
02:07:15,109 --> 02:07:12,400
he may have disappeared for several days

3453
02:07:18,470 --> 02:07:15,119
but nobody knows what he did during that

3454
02:07:21,350 --> 02:07:18,480
period and by saying i don't remember

3455
02:07:23,510 --> 02:07:21,360
that kind of closes down the discussion

3456
02:07:25,510 --> 02:07:23,520
yeah i think that's the

3457
02:07:28,069 --> 02:07:25,520
the problem here is that there's so much

3458
02:07:30,470 --> 02:07:28,079
material to go through and i

3459
02:07:32,149 --> 02:07:30,480
when i took a look i read the book

3460
02:07:34,069 --> 02:07:32,159
walton wrote and i

3461
02:07:36,149 --> 02:07:34,079
listened to him on a bunch of interviews

3462
02:07:40,390 --> 02:07:36,159
and i kind of looked at everything and i

3463
02:07:42,550 --> 02:07:40,400
really didn't find him incredible

3464
02:07:45,270 --> 02:07:42,560
and i had taken some courses in lie

3465
02:07:48,149 --> 02:07:45,280
detector and interrogation stuff so that

3466
02:07:49,830 --> 02:07:48,159
stuff caught my attention especially

3467
02:07:51,990 --> 02:07:49,840
but you know i can see how people would

3468
02:07:54,069 --> 02:07:52,000
come to different conclusions about this

3469
02:07:55,270 --> 02:07:54,079
given the nature of what he said

3470
02:07:57,669 --> 02:07:55,280
happened

3471
02:07:58,950 --> 02:07:57,679
but i think for people who aren't into

3472
02:08:00,390 --> 02:07:58,960
ufos

3473
02:08:02,950 --> 02:08:00,400
they're not going to want to take the

3474
02:08:04,470 --> 02:08:02,960
time to sift through all this stuff and

3475
02:08:06,550 --> 02:08:04,480
that might be why

3476
02:08:09,030 --> 02:08:06,560
you see a lot of people just kind of

3477
02:08:11,830 --> 02:08:09,040
writing off ufos all together because

3478
02:08:13,990 --> 02:08:11,840
there's massive amounts of materials and

3479
02:08:15,189 --> 02:08:14,000
counter claims and competing claims to

3480
02:08:17,750 --> 02:08:15,199
go through

3481
02:08:19,830 --> 02:08:17,760
even to come to the conclusion that you

3482
02:08:21,589 --> 02:08:19,840
just don't know what happened

3483
02:08:23,430 --> 02:08:21,599
yeah that's true that's why i tried to

3484
02:08:25,109 --> 02:08:23,440
keep the articles on the site fairly

3485
02:08:25,910 --> 02:08:25,119
short and have sifted through all of

3486
02:08:27,510 --> 02:08:25,920
that

3487
02:08:29,189 --> 02:08:27,520
in the first place to sort of show okay

3488
02:08:30,310 --> 02:08:29,199
well there's this and then there's that

3489
02:08:33,270 --> 02:08:30,320
and then there's this and then there's

3490
02:08:35,669 --> 02:08:33,280
that and when you're looking at

3491
02:08:37,350 --> 02:08:35,679
the sort of franchise that walton has on

3492
02:08:38,390 --> 02:08:37,360
the fire in the sky

3493
02:08:41,189 --> 02:08:38,400
thing and

3494
02:08:44,390 --> 02:08:41,199
the his presence out there in the ufo

3495
02:08:46,709 --> 02:08:44,400
community and the number of people who

3496
02:08:49,189 --> 02:08:46,719
see that and not the other side of it

3497
02:08:51,350 --> 02:08:49,199
then you've got a large group of people

3498
02:08:53,270 --> 02:08:51,360
who are believers compared to just a few

3499
02:08:56,069 --> 02:08:53,280
who bothered to dig into it

3500
02:08:57,270 --> 02:08:56,079
and see the other side of it so that's

3501
02:08:59,990 --> 02:08:57,280
why i've been accused of being a

3502
02:09:01,830 --> 02:09:00,000
debunker i'm i'm not making a judgment

3503
02:09:03,830 --> 02:09:01,840
call i don't know maybe this did happen

3504
02:09:06,310 --> 02:09:03,840
to him maybe it didn't but i think

3505
02:09:08,709 --> 02:09:06,320
people should know about the other side

3506
02:09:10,550 --> 02:09:08,719
of things definitely before they

3507
02:09:12,229 --> 02:09:10,560
they make up their mind about what they

3508
02:09:13,510 --> 02:09:12,239
believe

3509
02:09:15,030 --> 02:09:13,520
i think that by the way randall that

3510
02:09:16,550 --> 02:09:15,040
that should be the case with

3511
02:09:18,950 --> 02:09:16,560
virtually anything

3512
02:09:20,470 --> 02:09:18,960
i often call myself a skeptic and uh

3513
02:09:21,669 --> 02:09:20,480
many people say well mikey you know

3514
02:09:24,310 --> 02:09:21,679
you're not a skeptic in the sense of

3515
02:09:26,149 --> 02:09:24,320
like modern skepticism and proudly i

3516
02:09:27,189 --> 02:09:26,159
will retort that

3517
02:09:28,310 --> 02:09:27,199
people who make that assertion are

3518
02:09:29,910 --> 02:09:28,320
correct

3519
02:09:31,430 --> 02:09:29,920
modern skeptics and again marcelo

3520
02:09:32,550 --> 02:09:31,440
troutsey had and i want to come back

3521
02:09:34,069 --> 02:09:32,560
around to travis here in a moment

3522
02:09:35,910 --> 02:09:34,079
because i want to weigh in on that for

3523
02:09:37,109 --> 02:09:35,920
just a moment as well but but i will say

3524
02:09:39,109 --> 02:09:37,119
that there have been many people over

3525
02:09:40,470 --> 02:09:39,119
the years who have been skeptical but

3526
02:09:42,709 --> 02:09:40,480
who feel that there are many in the

3527
02:09:44,870 --> 02:09:42,719
modern skeptic movement that are rather

3528
02:09:47,990 --> 02:09:44,880
than being skeptical are essentially

3529
02:09:51,270 --> 02:09:48,000
playing to their predispositions toward

3530
02:09:53,109 --> 02:09:51,280
belief in disbelief or you know playing

3531
02:09:53,990 --> 02:09:53,119
off of their own biased perspective that

3532
02:09:57,030 --> 02:09:54,000
well

3533
02:09:59,109 --> 02:09:57,040
if all you know if 99 of all ufos can be

3534
02:10:00,709 --> 02:09:59,119
explained then why not 100 percent uh

3535
02:10:03,350 --> 02:10:00,719
trudzy had left

3536
02:10:05,589 --> 02:10:03,360
uh cycop uh just after its founding he

3537
02:10:07,270 --> 02:10:05,599
was one of the early members and he left

3538
02:10:08,550 --> 02:10:07,280
very shortly thereafter because he said

3539
02:10:11,750 --> 02:10:08,560
it was clear to me that rather than

3540
02:10:13,669 --> 02:10:11,760
having a honest skeptical debate many uh

3541
02:10:15,910 --> 02:10:13,679
who were on the class being i think one

3542
02:10:17,589 --> 02:10:15,920
of the people he was discussing many had

3543
02:10:19,510 --> 02:10:17,599
already made up their minds what they

3544
02:10:21,589 --> 02:10:19,520
believed and were not following through

3545
02:10:23,669 --> 02:10:21,599
in a unbiased way they were trying to

3546
02:10:24,950 --> 02:10:23,679
fulfill their expectations based on

3547
02:10:27,589 --> 02:10:24,960
their bias

3548
02:10:29,830 --> 02:10:27,599
now let's break sure we'll continue with

3549
02:10:39,430 --> 02:10:29,840
that with micah hanks and sue and

3550
02:10:44,189 --> 02:10:42,950
thank you for listening to gcn

3551
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be sure to visit

3552
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gcnlive.com today

3553
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[Music]

3554
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3654
02:14:55,990 --> 02:14:53,109
hi this is nick pope you're listening to

3655
02:15:00,550 --> 02:14:58,550
you were saying co-host micah hanks i

3656
02:15:02,310 --> 02:15:00,560
was just kind of outlining again that as

3657
02:15:03,990 --> 02:15:02,320
randall had said in the last segment we

3658
02:15:06,390 --> 02:15:04,000
all need to be skeptical about all

3659
02:15:08,149 --> 02:15:06,400
things and and again i think that you

3660
02:15:09,910 --> 02:15:08,159
can be skeptical without being

3661
02:15:11,189 --> 02:15:09,920
predisposed toward

3662
02:15:13,750 --> 02:15:11,199
debunking

3663
02:15:15,589 --> 02:15:13,760
every extraordinary claim uh i'd cited

3664
02:15:17,270 --> 02:15:15,599
marcelo trudzie as being an individual

3665
02:15:18,790 --> 02:15:17,280
who throughout his life had said well

3666
02:15:20,310 --> 02:15:18,800
sometimes and he initially wanted this

3667
02:15:21,910 --> 02:15:20,320
for the cycop journal which i guess

3668
02:15:23,830 --> 02:15:21,920
really i kind of became skeptical

3669
02:15:25,910 --> 02:15:23,840
inquirer he said he wanted there to be a

3670
02:15:28,550 --> 02:15:25,920
journal that could at least look at

3671
02:15:29,990 --> 02:15:28,560
some claims as being extraordinary but

3672
02:15:31,350 --> 02:15:30,000
when there wasn't enough evidence to

3673
02:15:32,709 --> 02:15:31,360
dismiss them outright that we could

3674
02:15:35,270 --> 02:15:32,719
leave open the possibility that there

3675
02:15:36,470 --> 02:15:35,280
was a verifiable phenomena nonetheless

3676
02:15:37,830 --> 02:15:36,480
and he found that many of his fellow

3677
02:15:40,229 --> 02:15:37,840
psychot members

3678
02:15:41,109 --> 02:15:40,239
were unwilling to bend on that and that

3679
02:15:43,830 --> 02:15:41,119
all

3680
02:15:45,589 --> 02:15:43,840
claims had to take a dismissive uh

3681
02:15:48,870 --> 02:15:45,599
skeptical attitude i do think that that

3682
02:15:51,030 --> 02:15:48,880
highlights too much skeptic bias among

3683
02:15:53,510 --> 02:15:51,040
modern skeptics and so in terms of being

3684
02:15:55,510 --> 02:15:53,520
truly skeptical as i like to say that i

3685
02:15:56,790 --> 02:15:55,520
am i try to ask hard questions i'm

3686
02:15:59,030 --> 02:15:56,800
seeing a lot of that from randall and

3687
02:16:01,189 --> 02:15:59,040
sue too that they're willing to ask hard

3688
02:16:02,950 --> 02:16:01,199
questions about a phenomenon whether it

3689
02:16:04,629 --> 02:16:02,960
be ufos or whatever else that we can

3690
02:16:05,430 --> 02:16:04,639
also be willing to accept there may be

3691
02:16:08,149 --> 02:16:05,440
enough

3692
02:16:10,229 --> 02:16:08,159
to discuss apart from those instances

3693
02:16:11,750 --> 02:16:10,239
that we have to be doubtful about now

3694
02:16:13,830 --> 02:16:11,760
coming back to travis walton for a

3695
02:16:15,750 --> 02:16:13,840
second the one time i was compared to

3696
02:16:18,550 --> 02:16:15,760
philip j class was when i wrote an

3697
02:16:20,709 --> 02:16:18,560
article years ago for ufo magazine

3698
02:16:22,470 --> 02:16:20,719
talking about similarities between the

3699
02:16:23,350 --> 02:16:22,480
description of the craft that walton had

3700
02:16:25,510 --> 02:16:23,360
seen

3701
02:16:27,910 --> 02:16:25,520
and various plasma

3702
02:16:29,750 --> 02:16:27,920
formations akin to ball lightning it

3703
02:16:30,870 --> 02:16:29,760
seems obvious to me now why i would have

3704
02:16:32,549 --> 02:16:30,880
written that

3705
02:16:34,070 --> 02:16:32,559
because of my long-held interest in the

3706
02:16:35,750 --> 02:16:34,080
brown mountain lights

3707
02:16:37,110 --> 02:16:35,760
unfortunately philip class had also

3708
02:16:38,230 --> 02:16:37,120
proposed that many ufos could be

3709
02:16:40,549 --> 02:16:38,240
explained

3710
02:16:42,150 --> 02:16:40,559
through various plasmas and hence people

3711
02:16:44,469 --> 02:16:42,160
had said you know you're just as bad as

3712
02:16:46,070 --> 02:16:44,479
philip j class how dare you cast any

3713
02:16:46,950 --> 02:16:46,080
doubt on travis walton well i've got to

3714
02:16:48,870 --> 02:16:46,960
say

3715
02:16:51,270 --> 02:16:48,880
i've met travis on numerous occasions

3716
02:16:53,589 --> 02:16:51,280
i've had dinner with him uh we've sat

3717
02:16:54,870 --> 02:16:53,599
down and had coffee together

3718
02:16:56,790 --> 02:16:54,880
very seldom when we're together do we

3719
02:16:58,790 --> 02:16:56,800
talk about ufos interestingly we are

3720
02:17:01,190 --> 02:16:58,800
usually talking about other things and i

3721
02:17:02,469 --> 02:17:01,200
actually like him a lot i have had no

3722
02:17:04,709 --> 02:17:02,479
reason to

3723
02:17:07,110 --> 02:17:04,719
particularly doubt that he had had some

3724
02:17:09,830 --> 02:17:07,120
experience and that is by the way with

3725
02:17:12,549 --> 02:17:09,840
full knowledge of class and others

3726
02:17:14,469 --> 02:17:12,559
investigations and the the various red

3727
02:17:15,750 --> 02:17:14,479
flags that have been raised you know one

3728
02:17:18,549 --> 02:17:15,760
thing i'll point out for instance is

3729
02:17:19,990 --> 02:17:18,559
that uh travis had apparently had a a

3730
02:17:21,990 --> 02:17:20,000
pact with his brother

3731
02:17:23,750 --> 02:17:22,000
that they ever had an opportunity to see

3732
02:17:25,750 --> 02:17:23,760
a ufo they'd get as close to it as

3733
02:17:27,669 --> 02:17:25,760
possible and some have looked at that as

3734
02:17:28,950 --> 02:17:27,679
being much like they looked at the

3735
02:17:30,549 --> 02:17:28,960
famous disappearance of frederick

3736
02:17:32,309 --> 02:17:30,559
valentich as being well he already had

3737
02:17:34,309 --> 02:17:32,319
an interest in ufos

3738
02:17:36,070 --> 02:17:34,319
prior to this alleged experience that to

3739
02:17:37,910 --> 02:17:36,080
me doesn't necessarily mean that nothing

3740
02:17:39,910 --> 02:17:37,920
actually happened so again i'm not

3741
02:17:42,389 --> 02:17:39,920
trying to necessarily bolster travis's

3742
02:17:44,230 --> 02:17:42,399
claims what i do know is that there are

3743
02:17:46,469 --> 02:17:44,240
some interesting points about his

3744
02:17:48,230 --> 02:17:46,479
experiences that he says have happened

3745
02:17:49,429 --> 02:17:48,240
to him uh there are some questions that

3746
02:17:51,190 --> 02:17:49,439
have been raised by class and others

3747
02:17:52,870 --> 02:17:51,200
over the years i think it's fair to ask

3748
02:17:55,110 --> 02:17:52,880
those questions but by the same token

3749
02:17:56,790 --> 02:17:55,120
knowing travis i find him to be you know

3750
02:17:58,469 --> 02:17:56,800
an interesting person i find him to be a

3751
02:17:59,750 --> 02:17:58,479
person who seems credible

3752
02:18:01,270 --> 02:17:59,760
i've never gotten the impression that he

3753
02:18:02,950 --> 02:18:01,280
was just in this just trying to make

3754
02:18:04,309 --> 02:18:02,960
money but yeah he's written a book and

3755
02:18:05,669 --> 02:18:04,319
he tries to sell books and again i'd

3756
02:18:07,349 --> 02:18:05,679
come back to that same

3757
02:18:09,429 --> 02:18:07,359
argument are there better ways that

3758
02:18:10,790 --> 02:18:09,439
someone could you know make a career

3759
02:18:12,709 --> 02:18:10,800
selling books are there better things

3760
02:18:14,070 --> 02:18:12,719
someone could write about and promote if

3761
02:18:16,230 --> 02:18:14,080
they really were just in this trying to

3762
02:18:17,750 --> 02:18:16,240
make money so maybe that could be said

3763
02:18:19,910 --> 02:18:17,760
about travis as well

3764
02:18:22,870 --> 02:18:19,920
who knows i like him i find him to be a

3765
02:18:25,509 --> 02:18:22,880
nice person and i nonetheless will say

3766
02:18:27,429 --> 02:18:25,519
that it's fair to ask hard questions

3767
02:18:28,950 --> 02:18:27,439
about any ufo claim

3768
02:18:30,469 --> 02:18:28,960
and that's not an attack against him any

3769
02:18:31,910 --> 02:18:30,479
more than it is an endorsement it's just

3770
02:18:33,110 --> 02:18:31,920
that it is fair to ask those kind of

3771
02:18:35,030 --> 02:18:33,120
questions if we're really going to be

3772
02:18:37,349 --> 02:18:35,040
honest as researchers those kind of

3773
02:18:39,509 --> 02:18:37,359
questions have to be asked that said i

3774
02:18:41,669 --> 02:18:39,519
do think there are certain researchers

3775
02:18:43,990 --> 02:18:41,679
these days that based on their pet

3776
02:18:45,349 --> 02:18:44,000
theories about ufos or based on their

3777
02:18:48,150 --> 02:18:45,359
relationships with certain individuals

3778
02:18:51,910 --> 02:18:48,160
in the community they become so

3779
02:18:53,270 --> 02:18:51,920
so beholden to upholding a person or a

3780
02:18:56,230 --> 02:18:53,280
cause that they become almost

3781
02:18:57,509 --> 02:18:56,240
evangelical about their involvement and

3782
02:18:59,110 --> 02:18:57,519
i think that that's kind of a problem

3783
02:19:01,349 --> 02:18:59,120
because when you become

3784
02:19:03,270 --> 02:19:01,359
evangelical and you have to fight for a

3785
02:19:05,349 --> 02:19:03,280
cause and you have to maintain your

3786
02:19:07,110 --> 02:19:05,359
position and hold your ground even if

3787
02:19:10,469 --> 02:19:07,120
there appears to be evidence to the

3788
02:19:12,950 --> 02:19:10,479
contrary that surfaces much later

3789
02:19:15,110 --> 02:19:12,960
that i think is in its own way just as

3790
02:19:16,389 --> 02:19:15,120
dangerous as the kind of extreme bias

3791
02:19:18,150 --> 02:19:16,399
that we find among the quote-unquote

3792
02:19:19,669 --> 02:19:18,160
guerrilla skeptics today so

3793
02:19:21,990 --> 02:19:19,679
we have to be skeptical we have to be

3794
02:19:23,190 --> 02:19:22,000
able to have a fair and very balanced

3795
02:19:24,549 --> 02:19:23,200
argument and we also have to our

3796
02:19:27,190 --> 02:19:24,559
discussion we have to also be able to

3797
02:19:28,230 --> 02:19:27,200
change our views in lieu of new evidence

3798
02:19:30,549 --> 02:19:28,240
here here

3799
02:19:31,750 --> 02:19:30,559
they're there where where

3800
02:19:35,110 --> 02:19:31,760
who who

3801
02:19:38,389 --> 02:19:36,709
i'll just tell you very briefly i'm on

3802
02:19:40,150 --> 02:19:38,399
the fence about

3803
02:19:42,549 --> 02:19:40,160
travis walton he seemed like a nice

3804
02:19:44,549 --> 02:19:42,559
enough guy he seems sincere enough but

3805
02:19:46,549 --> 02:19:44,559
he's been telling the story for decades

3806
02:19:49,590 --> 02:19:46,559
so after you've rehearsed the story for

3807
02:19:52,469 --> 02:19:49,600
decades you can sound quite sincere

3808
02:19:54,710 --> 02:19:52,479
but it also stands alone

3809
02:19:56,710 --> 02:19:54,720
by being someone who

3810
02:19:58,550 --> 02:19:56,720
just disappears somewhere

3811
02:20:01,429 --> 02:19:58,560
and comes back and says well

3812
02:20:03,349 --> 02:20:01,439
i guess i was aboard a ufo right and

3813
02:20:05,510 --> 02:20:03,359
well i mean there have been some people

3814
02:20:08,790 --> 02:20:05,520
who say they even know where he was

3815
02:20:11,030 --> 02:20:08,800
during that time period and it wasn't on

3816
02:20:12,230 --> 02:20:11,040
a ufo and of course

3817
02:20:14,070 --> 02:20:12,240
you can say well you know he didn't

3818
02:20:16,870 --> 02:20:14,080
stand to make much money at it but

3819
02:20:19,030 --> 02:20:16,880
inquirer did pay them all five thousand

3820
02:20:20,790 --> 02:20:19,040
dollars at the time and probably had

3821
02:20:21,910 --> 02:20:20,800
them sign some piece of paper declaring

3822
02:20:23,990 --> 02:20:21,920
it was true

3823
02:20:26,870 --> 02:20:24,000
and fire in the sky did go on to gross

3824
02:20:29,270 --> 02:20:26,880
19 million nearly 20 million dollars

3825
02:20:30,870 --> 02:20:29,280
then it's they released it on vhs and

3826
02:20:33,190 --> 02:20:30,880
now it's being

3827
02:20:36,150 --> 02:20:33,200
released again on dvd and he's talking

3828
02:20:37,670 --> 02:20:36,160
about yet another new movie a remake the

3829
02:20:39,910 --> 02:20:37,680
book itself has been re-released and

3830
02:20:42,230 --> 02:20:39,920
he's still out doing conferences and

3831
02:20:44,150 --> 02:20:42,240
stuff where he gets paid so i mean sure

3832
02:20:46,710 --> 02:20:44,160
maybe he hasn't made millions at it but

3833
02:20:47,990 --> 02:20:46,720
over a number of years it's it's

3834
02:20:49,270 --> 02:20:48,000
turned out to be a pretty good little

3835
02:20:51,830 --> 02:20:49,280
franchise

3836
02:20:54,150 --> 02:20:51,840
well certainly he was a total unknown

3837
02:20:55,349 --> 02:20:54,160
before this happened so he writes a book

3838
02:20:59,270 --> 02:20:55,359
he gets

3839
02:21:02,790 --> 02:20:59,280
public appearances paid lectures he also

3840
02:21:05,030 --> 02:21:02,800
has been running a ufo conference

3841
02:21:07,190 --> 02:21:05,040
now that is not necessarily a big money

3842
02:21:09,270 --> 02:21:07,200
maker but look

3843
02:21:11,830 --> 02:21:09,280
it's giving somebody who otherwise would

3844
02:21:14,550 --> 02:21:11,840
just be another guy

3845
02:21:17,110 --> 02:21:14,560
his not 15 minutes of fame maybe 30 or

3846
02:21:18,389 --> 02:21:17,120
45 minutes well we're looking at 40

3847
02:21:22,070 --> 02:21:18,399
years something

3848
02:21:23,110 --> 02:21:22,080
now right i have to think here over 40

3849
02:21:25,110 --> 02:21:23,120
years

3850
02:21:26,950 --> 02:21:25,120
yeah i can

3851
02:21:28,710 --> 02:21:26,960
tell you how many copies of that book he

3852
02:21:31,590 --> 02:21:28,720
sold but it could be a fairly steady

3853
02:21:33,750 --> 02:21:31,600
seller i don't know but it provides

3854
02:21:34,950 --> 02:21:33,760
something for him

3855
02:21:36,870 --> 02:21:34,960
other than

3856
02:21:38,790 --> 02:21:36,880
his normal stuff which would make him a

3857
02:21:41,349 --> 02:21:38,800
pretty unknown person

3858
02:21:43,750 --> 02:21:41,359
sure and you know all the best con men

3859
02:21:46,150 --> 02:21:43,760
are likable so i mean sure he might be a

3860
02:21:47,750 --> 02:21:46,160
perfectly likable guy and i don't think

3861
02:21:50,389 --> 02:21:47,760
he should necessarily be held

3862
02:21:52,389 --> 02:21:50,399
accountable his personality today for

3863
02:21:55,590 --> 02:21:52,399
something he did a long time ago back in

3864
02:21:57,190 --> 02:21:55,600
the mid 70s you know i i don't like to

3865
02:21:59,750 --> 02:21:57,200
bring that part of it up but you have to

3866
02:22:02,150 --> 02:21:59,760
look at this in terms of the climate of

3867
02:22:03,910 --> 02:22:02,160
the times and what happened at the time

3868
02:22:05,670 --> 02:22:03,920
because that's where it all began you

3869
02:22:07,990 --> 02:22:05,680
can't say well that never happened

3870
02:22:09,830 --> 02:22:08,000
because he's a nice guy now

3871
02:22:12,870 --> 02:22:09,840
the whole thing is one long chain of

3872
02:22:15,510 --> 02:22:12,880
events that really has a questionable

3873
02:22:17,110 --> 02:22:15,520
foundation in my mind and yet still

3874
02:22:18,070 --> 02:22:17,120
could be true i mean

3875
02:22:19,670 --> 02:22:18,080
you know

3876
02:22:21,349 --> 02:22:19,680
it could have been a bunch of guys in a

3877
02:22:24,070 --> 02:22:21,359
chain gang and it could still be have

3878
02:22:25,110 --> 02:22:24,080
been a real ufo i mean we don't we don't

3879
02:22:27,590 --> 02:22:25,120
know

3880
02:22:30,150 --> 02:22:27,600
it could have been a ufo

3881
02:22:31,110 --> 02:22:30,160
it could have been something related

3882
02:22:32,710 --> 02:22:31,120
to

3883
02:22:34,790 --> 02:22:32,720
what he claims the experience and then

3884
02:22:37,349 --> 02:22:34,800
he embellished it over the years or

3885
02:22:39,030 --> 02:22:37,359
embellished at the time to to give maybe

3886
02:22:41,349 --> 02:22:39,040
he hoped more credibility to what

3887
02:22:43,429 --> 02:22:41,359
happened if we're really lucky maybe

3888
02:22:45,349 --> 02:22:43,439
someone will turn up a couple of slides

3889
02:22:47,510 --> 02:22:45,359
and then we'll know for sure

3890
02:22:49,190 --> 02:22:47,520
never happen yes there's always a slide

3891
02:22:52,150 --> 02:22:49,200
in an attic that's the solution right

3892
02:22:53,349 --> 02:22:52,160
there let's look at every attic in the

3893
02:22:55,429 --> 02:22:53,359
world

3894
02:22:57,830 --> 02:22:55,439
and see if there are slides there

3895
02:22:59,590 --> 02:22:57,840
especially those showing visits to

3896
02:23:02,389 --> 02:22:59,600
museums

3897
02:23:04,469 --> 02:23:02,399
oh man you know i mean okay let me just

3898
02:23:06,469 --> 02:23:04,479
put this out there too as far as photos

3899
02:23:08,469 --> 02:23:06,479
that we hope will eventually turn up

3900
02:23:10,070 --> 02:23:08,479
you know one one of the issues i have is

3901
02:23:11,349 --> 02:23:10,080
that uh there have been a few people

3902
02:23:12,710 --> 02:23:11,359
over the years also who have said that

3903
02:23:14,950 --> 02:23:12,720
they do have some pretty good evidence

3904
02:23:16,469 --> 02:23:14,960
of ufos but they don't seem forthcoming

3905
02:23:17,990 --> 02:23:16,479
with that evidence ray stamford has said

3906
02:23:19,429 --> 02:23:18,000
for years that he's got a photograph of

3907
02:23:22,469 --> 02:23:19,439
whatever apparently showed up down there

3908
02:23:25,110 --> 02:23:22,479
that lani zamora saw uh the famous um

3909
02:23:27,190 --> 02:23:25,120
lonnie zamora incident or the socorro

3910
02:23:29,270 --> 02:23:27,200
right score ufo i guess you know again

3911
02:23:31,110 --> 02:23:29,280
all these instances have different names

3912
02:23:33,110 --> 02:23:31,120
but i'm talking about the lonnie zamora

3913
02:23:34,870 --> 02:23:33,120
encounter but you know it it troubles me

3914
02:23:36,950 --> 02:23:34,880
when there are people who say i'm not

3915
02:23:38,630 --> 02:23:36,960
attacking ray either i'm just saying if

3916
02:23:40,389 --> 02:23:38,640
we've got good data

3917
02:23:42,389 --> 02:23:40,399
if we've got any kind of evidence

3918
02:23:44,550 --> 02:23:42,399
photographic or otherwise

3919
02:23:47,349 --> 02:23:44,560
and it's purportedly known to exist why

3920
02:23:49,270 --> 02:23:47,359
is that kept from public view i do sort

3921
02:23:51,670 --> 02:23:49,280
of hope that maybe at some point that a

3922
02:23:53,270 --> 02:23:51,680
slide will turn up a video a piece of

3923
02:23:55,510 --> 02:23:53,280
metallic debris or something that will

3924
02:23:58,070 --> 02:23:55,520
at least lend some sort of physical

3925
02:24:00,070 --> 02:23:58,080
evidence i've been presented with

3926
02:24:02,230 --> 02:24:00,080
purported physical evidence like this in

3927
02:24:03,990 --> 02:24:02,240
the past uh one notable experience

3928
02:24:06,469 --> 02:24:04,000
involving a metallic

3929
02:24:07,750 --> 02:24:06,479
object that uh i don't think uh really

3930
02:24:09,190 --> 02:24:07,760
is best

3931
02:24:11,270 --> 02:24:09,200
discussed as being representative of any

3932
02:24:13,110 --> 02:24:11,280
kind of ufo slag or anything like that

3933
02:24:14,950 --> 02:24:13,120
george wingfield a former guest on this

3934
02:24:16,950 --> 02:24:14,960
program the british researcher friend of

3935
02:24:19,190 --> 02:24:16,960
mine and uh he certainly has expressed

3936
02:24:20,950 --> 02:24:19,200
skeptical views about this particular

3937
02:24:22,150 --> 02:24:20,960
artifact and there are a lot of you know

3938
02:24:23,750 --> 02:24:22,160
things like that over the years that

3939
02:24:26,309 --> 02:24:23,760
have been touted as possible evidence of

3940
02:24:28,790 --> 02:24:26,319
a ufo let's break it then we'll continue

3941
02:24:39,349 --> 02:24:28,800
one more segment with micah hanks and

3942
02:24:44,110 --> 02:24:42,790
thank you for listening to gcn

3943
02:24:46,870 --> 02:24:44,120
be sure to visit

3944
02:24:49,190 --> 02:24:46,880
gcnlive.com today

3945
02:24:52,469 --> 02:24:49,200
we also have swag you know we have all

3946
02:24:55,110 --> 02:24:52,479
these exclusive power cast things that

3947
02:24:58,389 --> 02:24:55,120
you can buy we've got like i guess 60 or

3948
02:25:01,910 --> 02:24:58,399
so different items and entails t-shirts

3949
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3950
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3951
02:25:09,190 --> 02:25:07,439
tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

3952
02:25:12,630 --> 02:25:09,200
jackets and stuff like that for men and

3953
02:25:14,389 --> 02:25:12,640
women we have a powercast aluminum water

3954
02:25:17,870 --> 02:25:14,399
bottle all this stuff you go to

3955
02:25:22,389 --> 02:25:19,750
store.thepowercast.com what makes it

3956
02:25:25,270 --> 02:25:22,399
special is that the items are the best

3957
02:25:27,030 --> 02:25:25,280
quality a great t-shirts fabrics and

3958
02:25:28,230 --> 02:25:27,040
they have our official logo on them

3959
02:25:31,429 --> 02:25:28,240
that's what makes them special in

3960
02:25:33,910 --> 02:25:31,439
multiple sizes and colors we even have

3961
02:25:36,389 --> 02:25:33,920
stuff for children stuff for women stuff

3962
02:25:39,030 --> 02:25:36,399
for men we have all sorts of sizes like

3963
02:25:41,349 --> 02:25:39,040
small up to x large a lot of good stuff

3964
02:25:42,830 --> 02:25:41,359
that's the swag from the power cast you

3965
02:25:45,349 --> 02:25:42,840
go to

3966
02:25:47,750 --> 02:25:45,359
store.thepowercast.com stop by and take

3967
02:25:50,150 --> 02:25:47,760
a shopping tour are your google search

3968
02:25:52,469 --> 02:25:50,160
results killing you unflattering content

3969
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in blogs news articles online reviews

3970
02:25:56,309 --> 02:25:54,160
social media or other sources can

3971
02:25:59,190 --> 02:25:56,319
jeopardize your reputation your business

3972
02:26:01,190 --> 02:25:59,200
and your livelihood let reputation.com

3973
02:26:02,950 --> 02:26:01,200
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3974
02:26:05,270 --> 02:26:02,960
the truth about you more visible while

3975
02:26:07,590 --> 02:26:05,280
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3976
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improve your google search results call

3977
02:26:10,990 --> 02:26:09,120
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3978
02:26:19,110 --> 02:26:11,000
at

3979
02:26:20,150 --> 02:26:19,120
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3980
02:26:21,190 --> 02:26:20,160
taxes the attorney responsible for the

3981
02:26:22,070 --> 02:26:21,200
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3982
02:26:23,030 --> 02:26:22,080
advice and the choice of lawyers should

3983
02:26:23,990 --> 02:26:23,040
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3984
02:26:26,150 --> 02:26:24,000
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3985
02:26:28,070 --> 02:26:26,160
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3986
02:26:29,510 --> 02:26:28,080
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3987
02:26:31,110 --> 02:26:29,520
serious bleeding event you may be

3988
02:26:33,030 --> 02:26:31,120
entitled to financial compensation

3989
02:26:34,550 --> 02:26:33,040
xarelto is a popular prescription blood

3990
02:26:35,990 --> 02:26:34,560
thinner used to prevent blood clots and

3991
02:26:37,270 --> 02:26:36,000
protect patients from strokes these

3992
02:26:38,950 --> 02:26:37,280
serious bleeding events have led to

3993
02:26:41,190 --> 02:26:38,960
numerous cases of hospitalization and

3994
02:26:42,429 --> 02:26:41,200
even death phone lines are open 24 7.

3995
02:26:48,870 --> 02:26:42,439
call

3996
02:26:52,630 --> 02:26:51,030
this is an alert if your business or

3997
02:26:54,389 --> 02:26:52,640
church is building this year you're

3998
02:26:56,070 --> 02:26:54,399
about to pay more than you should this

3999
02:26:57,910 --> 02:26:56,080
could mean thousands of dollars more for

4000
02:26:59,990 --> 02:26:57,920
your office retail space church or

4001
02:27:01,750 --> 02:27:00,000
warehouse a general steel building can

4002
02:27:03,349 --> 02:27:01,760
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4003
02:27:05,110 --> 02:27:03,359
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4004
02:27:06,630 --> 02:27:05,120
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4005
02:27:08,790 --> 02:27:06,640
of up to twenty thousand dollars to help

4006
02:27:10,230 --> 02:27:08,800
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4007
02:27:15,190 --> 02:27:10,240
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4008
02:27:19,110 --> 02:27:15,200
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4009
02:27:20,469 --> 02:27:19,120
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4010
02:27:22,870 --> 02:27:20,479
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4011
02:27:24,870 --> 02:27:22,880
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4012
02:27:26,630 --> 02:27:24,880
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4013
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4014
02:27:30,710 --> 02:27:28,640
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4015
02:27:32,950 --> 02:27:30,720
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4016
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4017
02:27:37,110 --> 02:27:34,720
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4018
02:27:39,790 --> 02:27:37,120
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4019
02:27:42,150 --> 02:27:39,800
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4020
02:27:44,309 --> 02:27:42,160
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4021
02:27:46,309 --> 02:27:44,319
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4022
02:27:49,030 --> 02:27:46,319
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4023
02:27:50,790 --> 02:27:49,040
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4024
02:27:52,790 --> 02:27:50,800
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4025
02:27:55,110 --> 02:27:52,800
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4026
02:27:57,990 --> 02:27:55,120
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4027
02:28:00,150 --> 02:27:58,000
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4028
02:28:01,830 --> 02:28:00,160
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4029
02:28:03,910 --> 02:28:01,840
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4030
02:28:05,990 --> 02:28:03,920
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4031
02:28:07,590 --> 02:28:06,000
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4032
02:28:13,590 --> 02:28:07,600
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4033
02:28:13,600 --> 02:28:18,230
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4034
02:28:22,309 --> 02:28:20,630
as a doctor i see patients every day who

4035
02:28:25,590 --> 02:28:22,319
are losing their vision to age-related

4036
02:28:27,750 --> 02:28:25,600
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4037
02:28:29,990 --> 02:28:27,760
if you have blurry vision or blind spots

4038
02:28:32,070 --> 02:28:30,000
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4039
02:28:34,309 --> 02:28:32,080
untreated could lead to blindness the

4040
02:28:35,990 --> 02:28:34,319
good news amd can be managed with

4041
02:28:38,469 --> 02:28:36,000
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4042
02:28:40,469 --> 02:28:38,479
that may reverse some vision loss for

4043
02:28:43,030 --> 02:28:40,479
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4044
02:28:45,670 --> 02:28:43,040
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4045
02:28:53,270 --> 02:28:45,680
blindness that's 1 800 blindness there

4046
02:28:57,750 --> 02:28:55,750
hi this is joshua p warren author of the

4047
02:29:00,150 --> 02:28:57,760
poor man's paranormal and you're

4048
02:29:03,690 --> 02:29:00,160
listening to the paracast the gold

4049
02:29:11,910 --> 02:29:03,700
standard of paranormal radio

4050
02:29:15,110 --> 02:29:13,510
so you were telling us

4051
02:29:18,230 --> 02:29:15,120
about possible

4052
02:29:19,270 --> 02:29:18,240
physical evidence micah hanks yeah tell

4053
02:29:22,150 --> 02:29:19,280
us more

4054
02:29:23,830 --> 02:29:22,160
i'm really asking is there good evidence

4055
02:29:25,510 --> 02:29:23,840
you know again we hear stories about

4056
02:29:26,870 --> 02:29:25,520
things now i have a few friends who have

4057
02:29:28,550 --> 02:29:26,880
visited with ray stanford and who have

4058
02:29:30,630 --> 02:29:28,560
said that they've seen a photo that uh

4059
02:29:32,790 --> 02:29:30,640
purports to show an object similar to

4060
02:29:35,190 --> 02:29:32,800
that which lani zamora described seeing

4061
02:29:37,349 --> 02:29:35,200
this is one of the classic ufo incidents

4062
02:29:39,429 --> 02:29:37,359
of course this was one that j allen

4063
02:29:41,270 --> 02:29:39,439
heineck had also investigated during his

4064
02:29:44,150 --> 02:29:41,280
time with blue book remains i think one

4065
02:29:45,910 --> 02:29:44,160
of the more fascinating ufo encounters

4066
02:29:47,750 --> 02:29:45,920
of all time and i know that ray stanford

4067
02:29:50,070 --> 02:29:47,760
feels at times that he has been treated

4068
02:29:51,670 --> 02:29:50,080
badly by other researchers and is

4069
02:29:53,830 --> 02:29:51,680
therefore resist or to the idea of

4070
02:29:55,349 --> 02:29:53,840
releasing this photo that he says he has

4071
02:29:56,630 --> 02:29:55,359
so i don't doubt that he has it but i am

4072
02:29:58,469 --> 02:29:56,640
troubled by the idea that there are all

4073
02:30:01,270 --> 02:29:58,479
these instances where there is allegedly

4074
02:30:03,110 --> 02:30:01,280
debris or slag or photos or anything

4075
02:30:04,870 --> 02:30:03,120
that might offer some credible tangible

4076
02:30:06,710 --> 02:30:04,880
evidence of a ufo and then you've got

4077
02:30:08,469 --> 02:30:06,720
guys like david marlar today who i've

4078
02:30:10,070 --> 02:30:08,479
spoken with and he says micah these days

4079
02:30:11,670 --> 02:30:10,080
a photo isn't good enough i mean no

4080
02:30:13,510 --> 02:30:11,680
photo in this age of digital

4081
02:30:16,790 --> 02:30:13,520
manipulation will offer good proof of a

4082
02:30:18,230 --> 02:30:16,800
ufo question really if that's true and i

4083
02:30:20,309 --> 02:30:18,240
can't say that i disagree with him i

4084
02:30:22,070 --> 02:30:20,319
mean how can we find an avenue for

4085
02:30:23,510 --> 02:30:22,080
producing good evidence of a ufo what

4086
02:30:26,070 --> 02:30:23,520
will it take to

4087
02:30:28,230 --> 02:30:26,080
bring physical proof into the equation

4088
02:30:30,230 --> 02:30:28,240
here what or any kind of good evidence

4089
02:30:32,150 --> 02:30:30,240
for that matter what do we have to have

4090
02:30:33,590 --> 02:30:32,160
in this day and age to be able to prove

4091
02:30:36,550 --> 02:30:33,600
to people hey there is some sort of

4092
02:30:38,630 --> 02:30:36,560
tangibility to this phenomenon well that

4093
02:30:41,110 --> 02:30:38,640
hinges like rupell said it hinges on the

4094
02:30:43,190 --> 02:30:41,120
word proof what is proof and

4095
02:30:45,190 --> 02:30:43,200
when asked that a lot of people sort of

4096
02:30:47,670 --> 02:30:45,200
glaze over they become a little confused

4097
02:30:49,830 --> 02:30:47,680
but really it's quite simple proof is

4098
02:30:51,990 --> 02:30:49,840
simply evidence that's sufficient to

4099
02:30:54,870 --> 02:30:52,000
justify the belief in a claim

4100
02:30:56,870 --> 02:30:54,880
now some people are going to find

4101
02:30:58,710 --> 02:30:56,880
some evidence enough and other people

4102
02:31:00,630 --> 02:30:58,720
are going to require more evidence and

4103
02:31:03,510 --> 02:31:00,640
other people are going to have very very

4104
02:31:05,349 --> 02:31:03,520
strict scientific standards

4105
02:31:07,270 --> 02:31:05,359
proof for one person isn't the same as

4106
02:31:08,710 --> 02:31:07,280
proof for another person so at some

4107
02:31:11,910 --> 02:31:08,720
point we have to ask well what's

4108
02:31:14,389 --> 02:31:11,920
reasonable if a hundred thousand people

4109
02:31:17,110 --> 02:31:14,399
say that they've had this experience

4110
02:31:19,990 --> 02:31:17,120
then is that reasonable enough to say

4111
02:31:22,950 --> 02:31:20,000
that something is going on are we being

4112
02:31:25,510 --> 02:31:22,960
visited by some sort of alien craft and

4113
02:31:27,830 --> 02:31:25,520
i think it is i don't think we need hard

4114
02:31:29,910 --> 02:31:27,840
material physical evidence to be

4115
02:31:32,469 --> 02:31:29,920
confident that we're being visited by

4116
02:31:33,670 --> 02:31:32,479
alien craft beyond that i don't know

4117
02:31:36,150 --> 02:31:33,680
where they're coming from like we've

4118
02:31:38,790 --> 02:31:36,160
talked about before but i think it's

4119
02:31:40,230 --> 02:31:38,800
pretty much unreasonable to say it's not

4120
02:31:42,150 --> 02:31:40,240
happening i would agree and randall

4121
02:31:43,990 --> 02:31:42,160
quickly to that point i'll also say

4122
02:31:46,150 --> 02:31:44,000
often cite john napier who is a

4123
02:31:48,309 --> 02:31:46,160
primatologist with the smithsonian wrote

4124
02:31:51,429 --> 02:31:48,319
a great book about bigfoot back in the

4125
02:31:52,630 --> 02:31:51,439
1970s i cite him in this discussion

4126
02:31:55,030 --> 02:31:52,640
unrelated though that subject of

4127
02:31:57,349 --> 02:31:55,040
cryptozoology may seem because as a

4128
02:31:59,030 --> 02:31:57,359
researcher he was largely considered and

4129
02:32:01,030 --> 02:31:59,040
recognized as in his writings show this

4130
02:32:03,830 --> 02:32:01,040
he was very skeptical of the subject he

4131
02:32:06,389 --> 02:32:03,840
wrote about nonetheless he also said if

4132
02:32:08,710 --> 02:32:06,399
we are to discuss something like bigfoot

4133
02:32:10,630 --> 02:32:08,720
which exists apart from consensus

4134
02:32:12,230 --> 02:32:10,640
opinions in modern science we have to

4135
02:32:13,830 --> 02:32:12,240
from time to time step into what he

4136
02:32:15,510 --> 02:32:13,840
called the goblin universe and we have

4137
02:32:17,750 --> 02:32:15,520
to be willing to discuss it on those

4138
02:32:20,469 --> 02:32:17,760
terms and so again i think to discuss a

4139
02:32:23,030 --> 02:32:20,479
subject like ufos for instance is not

4140
02:32:26,389 --> 02:32:23,040
nor it should be misconstrued as being a

4141
02:32:27,670 --> 02:32:26,399
fantastic belief in some fantastic

4142
02:32:29,830 --> 02:32:27,680
possibility for which there's no

4143
02:32:31,190 --> 02:32:29,840
evidence i think that we sometimes have

4144
02:32:33,110 --> 02:32:31,200
to state very clearly that as you've

4145
02:32:34,309 --> 02:32:33,120
pointed out randall and this mirrors

4146
02:32:35,910 --> 02:32:34,319
things that sue has said over the course

4147
02:32:38,070 --> 02:32:35,920
of the conversation too

4148
02:32:40,309 --> 02:32:38,080
we really sometimes need to recognize

4149
02:32:41,670 --> 02:32:40,319
that despite there being that lack of

4150
02:32:43,270 --> 02:32:41,680
proof that would you know satisfy

4151
02:32:44,389 --> 02:32:43,280
physicistic chemists something along

4152
02:32:46,710 --> 02:32:44,399
those lines that there is enough

4153
02:32:48,389 --> 02:32:46,720
anecdotal data to substantiate a

4154
02:32:49,830 --> 02:32:48,399
phenomena does seem to exist and there's

4155
02:32:51,990 --> 02:32:49,840
observational data that should be

4156
02:32:54,150 --> 02:32:52,000
considered and now we can step into that

4157
02:32:56,469 --> 02:32:54,160
realm i call it the goblin universe if

4158
02:32:57,990 --> 02:32:56,479
you want but let's say we have to deal

4159
02:33:00,309 --> 02:32:58,000
with this subject sometimes on its own

4160
02:33:02,070 --> 02:33:00,319
terms which is pre-scientific sort of

4161
02:33:04,070 --> 02:33:02,080
and perhaps the furtherance of our

4162
02:33:05,670 --> 02:33:04,080
knowledge in that realm will allow for

4163
02:33:07,910 --> 02:33:05,680
at some point a broader scientific

4164
02:33:09,349 --> 02:33:07,920
discussion to be had so yes i think that

4165
02:33:10,630 --> 02:33:09,359
it does outline that there are different

4166
02:33:11,830 --> 02:33:10,640
kinds of evidence and different things

4167
02:33:13,670 --> 02:33:11,840
that mean different things different

4168
02:33:15,830 --> 02:33:13,680
people from different ideological and

4169
02:33:18,150 --> 02:33:15,840
intellectual perspectives i like to say

4170
02:33:20,150 --> 02:33:18,160
that i apply the principles of critical

4171
02:33:22,950 --> 02:33:20,160
thinking to the theory and to the

4172
02:33:25,349 --> 02:33:22,960
phenomena itself so there's the

4173
02:33:27,190 --> 02:33:25,359
scientific method and then there's

4174
02:33:28,550 --> 02:33:27,200
critical thinking and both are

4175
02:33:31,510 --> 02:33:28,560
academically

4176
02:33:34,309 --> 02:33:31,520
acceptable forms of analyzing a problem

4177
02:33:36,150 --> 02:33:34,319
both can yield reasonable conclusions

4178
02:33:38,070 --> 02:33:36,160
about what may or may not be taking

4179
02:33:40,950 --> 02:33:38,080
place when we talk about anecdotal

4180
02:33:43,110 --> 02:33:40,960
evidence it's not totally unscientific

4181
02:33:45,670 --> 02:33:43,120
the stimulus response for example in

4182
02:33:47,349 --> 02:33:45,680
terms of when we see something how our

4183
02:33:48,870 --> 02:33:47,359
eye responds is well known it's how

4184
02:33:50,710 --> 02:33:48,880
we're able to make prescriptions for

4185
02:33:53,190 --> 02:33:50,720
glasses and so on

4186
02:33:55,830 --> 02:33:53,200
chances are if someone sees something

4187
02:33:58,389 --> 02:33:55,840
there is some external phenomenon that

4188
02:34:00,550 --> 02:33:58,399
has caused light to enter a person's eye

4189
02:34:02,630 --> 02:34:00,560
and show up as an image on the back and

4190
02:34:05,750 --> 02:34:02,640
be translated into image within our

4191
02:34:07,190 --> 02:34:05,760
consciousness that's well understood for

4192
02:34:08,870 --> 02:34:07,200
hundreds and hundreds of thousands of

4193
02:34:10,950 --> 02:34:08,880
people to see these things and describe

4194
02:34:13,349 --> 02:34:10,960
them and to think that it's all simply

4195
02:34:15,030 --> 02:34:13,359
hallucinations it's just not reasonable

4196
02:34:16,870 --> 02:34:15,040
so it's not like there's no science

4197
02:34:19,590 --> 02:34:16,880
involved there really is science

4198
02:34:22,070 --> 02:34:19,600
involved human beings are fantastic

4199
02:34:24,389 --> 02:34:22,080
recorders of information and perceivers

4200
02:34:27,190 --> 02:34:24,399
of the world around us only recently

4201
02:34:29,590 --> 02:34:27,200
have cameras and such been able to adapt

4202
02:34:31,270 --> 02:34:29,600
to the lighting conditions in a dynamic

4203
02:34:33,429 --> 02:34:31,280
fashion to be able to observe things

4204
02:34:34,309 --> 02:34:33,439
that are moving quickly through dim and

4205
02:34:36,710 --> 02:34:34,319
light

4206
02:34:38,950 --> 02:34:36,720
areas and determine what they are with

4207
02:34:40,950 --> 02:34:38,960
an intelligence for that matter there

4208
02:34:43,349 --> 02:34:40,960
isn't even anything that's intelligent

4209
02:34:45,110 --> 02:34:43,359
or as intelligent as we are to be able

4210
02:34:47,590 --> 02:34:45,120
to do that that's hooked up to any kind

4211
02:34:49,750 --> 02:34:47,600
of sensing mechanism it's really a

4212
02:34:51,590 --> 02:34:49,760
mistake in my view to think that

4213
02:34:54,150 --> 02:34:51,600
people's personal experiences should be

4214
02:34:55,190 --> 02:34:54,160
written off as unreliable enough to

4215
02:34:57,910 --> 02:34:55,200
discount

4216
02:34:59,670 --> 02:34:57,920
the entire phenomena well the issue you

4217
02:35:02,630 --> 02:34:59,680
can argue about here

4218
02:35:03,429 --> 02:35:02,640
is yes they see something what did they

4219
02:35:08,630 --> 02:35:03,439
see

4220
02:35:10,950 --> 02:35:08,640
what the phenomenon is and that's where

4221
02:35:14,790 --> 02:35:10,960
we get into all these ephemeral aspects

4222
02:35:17,270 --> 02:35:14,800
and paranormal aspects that's a physical

4223
02:35:19,270 --> 02:35:17,280
aircraft capable of feasts of

4224
02:35:21,429 --> 02:35:19,280
maneuverability that appear to exceed

4225
02:35:23,110 --> 02:35:21,439
what we can do well you could say well

4226
02:35:26,710 --> 02:35:23,120
some advanced

4227
02:35:27,750 --> 02:35:26,720
civilization did that it may not be a

4228
02:35:29,830 --> 02:35:27,760
secret

4229
02:35:32,710 --> 02:35:29,840
test aircraft here although i suspect

4230
02:35:34,630 --> 02:35:32,720
that was a possible source of a lot of

4231
02:35:37,110 --> 02:35:34,640
ufos over the years

4232
02:35:39,910 --> 02:35:37,120
then this is where the expectation or

4233
02:35:41,990 --> 02:35:39,920
belief in et comes from at the other

4234
02:35:43,990 --> 02:35:42,000
side of the coin well if we're not

4235
02:35:45,990 --> 02:35:44,000
seeing what's there we're only seeing

4236
02:35:48,230 --> 02:35:46,000
our interpretation of what's there

4237
02:35:50,710 --> 02:35:48,240
because there are aspects that just are

4238
02:35:52,710 --> 02:35:50,720
too alien to us or just beyond their

4239
02:35:55,590 --> 02:35:52,720
understanding i don't know i wouldn't

4240
02:35:57,750 --> 02:35:55,600
pretend to know so if we presume to want

4241
02:36:00,230 --> 02:35:57,760
to discuss this on the show we could

4242
02:36:02,469 --> 02:36:00,240
start another episode or maybe continue

4243
02:36:05,510 --> 02:36:02,479
this and after the power cast we can see

4244
02:36:07,429 --> 02:36:05,520
this has been a fun session with micah

4245
02:36:09,190 --> 02:36:07,439
hanks and ufology

4246
02:36:10,150 --> 02:36:09,200
and sue and it's something that we put

4247
02:36:12,870 --> 02:36:10,160
together

4248
02:36:15,510 --> 02:36:12,880
on fairly short notice it's nice to see

4249
02:36:18,790 --> 02:36:15,520
how you guys just are set loose in the

4250
02:36:21,590 --> 02:36:18,800
world and you produce magic it was a fun

4251
02:36:23,429 --> 02:36:21,600
episode indeed well it was great randall

4252
02:36:25,110 --> 02:36:23,439
would you tell our listeners

4253
02:36:27,270 --> 02:36:25,120
about your organization how they can

4254
02:36:29,750 --> 02:36:27,280
participate well thanks a lot for the

4255
02:36:31,830 --> 02:36:29,760
opportunity to be here gene again

4256
02:36:33,910 --> 02:36:31,840
if anyone is interested in participating

4257
02:36:36,950 --> 02:36:33,920
or just supporting the cause it's free

4258
02:36:39,270 --> 02:36:36,960
membership no dues lifetime forever

4259
02:36:41,110 --> 02:36:39,280
there's no commitment or work required

4260
02:36:43,910 --> 02:36:41,120
if you're not interested but any

4261
02:36:46,469 --> 02:36:43,920
volunteering would be welcome just go to

4262
02:36:48,389 --> 02:36:46,479
ufopages.com

4263
02:36:50,150 --> 02:36:48,399
and you can check out the website there

4264
02:36:52,389 --> 02:36:50,160
you'll need a full featured computer it

4265
02:36:54,150 --> 02:36:52,399
doesn't work very well on on browsers

4266
02:36:56,469 --> 02:36:54,160
that are on phones and such

4267
02:36:58,870 --> 02:36:56,479
but on a full featured computer it's a

4268
02:37:00,630 --> 02:36:58,880
great website so check it out sue i

4269
02:37:01,510 --> 02:37:00,640
presume you have nothing to sell and no

4270
02:37:04,150 --> 02:37:01,520
site

4271
02:37:05,830 --> 02:37:04,160
no i'm just floating around there and on

4272
02:37:08,550 --> 02:37:05,840
the cloud somewhere

4273
02:37:10,070 --> 02:37:08,560
oh that's more fun she's got wings by

4274
02:37:12,230 --> 02:37:10,080
the way

4275
02:37:14,230 --> 02:37:12,240
she's hawk girl or something or hawk

4276
02:37:15,510 --> 02:37:14,240
woman i forget the character

4277
02:37:17,429 --> 02:37:15,520
micah hanks

4278
02:37:19,190 --> 02:37:17,439
tell us briefly how they can get in

4279
02:37:20,550 --> 02:37:19,200
touch with the things you do

4280
02:37:23,030 --> 02:37:20,560
absolutely of course there's always my

4281
02:37:24,710 --> 02:37:23,040
website micahanks.com some podcast

4282
02:37:25,830 --> 02:37:24,720
listeners have expressed confusion

4283
02:37:27,990 --> 02:37:25,840
because they don't find the shows there

4284
02:37:30,950 --> 02:37:28,000
that's because the graylean report is my

4285
02:37:32,710 --> 02:37:30,960
podcast which is at graylien

4286
02:37:34,309 --> 02:37:32,720
e g-r-a-l-i-e-n report dot com you can

4287
02:37:36,030 --> 02:37:34,319
find that on itunes as well as the other

4288
02:37:39,110 --> 02:37:36,040
show i do middle theory which is at

4289
02:37:41,750 --> 02:37:39,120
middletheory.com my email you may reach

4290
02:37:43,750 --> 02:37:41,760
out to me at any time info at my name

4291
02:37:45,510 --> 02:37:43,760
info micahanks.com and that goes for you

4292
02:37:46,790 --> 02:37:45,520
sue and for you randall too i hope to

4293
02:37:47,910 --> 02:37:46,800
hear from you guys let's stay in touch

4294
02:37:49,830 --> 02:37:47,920
randall i want to learn more about your

4295
02:37:51,990 --> 02:37:49,840
organization and maybe help out

4296
02:37:54,550 --> 02:37:52,000
let's continue here and tell you all

4297
02:37:56,710 --> 02:37:54,560
that we can be found on twitter look for

4298
02:37:58,710 --> 02:37:56,720
the power cast the power cast is on

4299
02:38:01,190 --> 02:37:58,720
twitter there are two power cast fan

4300
02:38:02,309 --> 02:38:01,200
clubs on facebook one's a group one's a

4301
02:38:04,950 --> 02:38:02,319
community

4302
02:38:07,349 --> 02:38:04,960
and the difference is

4303
02:38:09,030 --> 02:38:07,359
obvious to some people not to me but

4304
02:38:11,110 --> 02:38:09,040
we'll keep it as it is

4305
02:38:13,349 --> 02:38:11,120
we also have a second radio show called

4306
02:38:15,110 --> 02:38:13,359
after the powercast which is the

4307
02:38:16,469 --> 02:38:15,120
featured presentation

4308
02:38:18,710 --> 02:38:16,479
of the powercast plus at

4309
02:38:19,349 --> 02:38:18,720
plus.powercast.com

4310
02:38:24,710 --> 02:38:19,359
p

4311
02:38:26,630 --> 02:38:24,720
commercial free version of this show

4312
02:38:29,349 --> 02:38:26,640
a limited number of show transcripts

4313
02:38:31,670 --> 02:38:29,359
we've added some classic episodes and

4314
02:38:34,790 --> 02:38:31,680
more are coming we expect to have more

4315
02:38:36,790 --> 02:38:34,800
videos from chris o'brien in the very

4316
02:38:40,150 --> 02:38:36,800
near future lots of really good stuff

4317
02:38:41,670 --> 02:38:40,160
plus that the powercast.com a low

4318
02:38:44,150 --> 02:38:41,680
subscription rate

4319
02:38:47,030 --> 02:38:44,160
to sign up and become a member i'm going

4320
02:38:48,710 --> 02:38:47,040
to say this all in sequence and then

4321
02:38:49,590 --> 02:38:48,720
micah hanks

4322
02:38:51,750 --> 02:38:49,600
sue

4323
02:38:53,270 --> 02:38:51,760
ufology thanks for joining us on the

4324
02:38:54,309 --> 02:38:53,280
powercast

4325
02:39:05,429 --> 02:38:54,319
thank you

4326
02:39:11,190 --> 02:39:08,309
the paracast featuring gene steinberg

4327
02:39:14,230 --> 02:39:11,200
and christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

4328
02:39:15,910 --> 02:39:14,240
presentation of making the impossible

4329
02:39:20,070 --> 02:39:15,920
incorporated